Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 23:44:14 -0600
From: Ricardo David
To: paperlate@atom.ansto.gov.au
Subject: Mike Talks to Paperlate!
Sender: paperlate-digest-owner@ansto.gov.au
Reply-To: paperlate@atom.ansto.gov.au
Content-Length: 2708
Status: RO
X-Lines: 56
Well, folks here comes that damn interview that I have spent the last 8 hours typing in. Everyone better like it! Can you tell I have been typing way to long.
I didn't say everything I wanted but I believe we made a great connection and got solid information not found anywhere else. Bottom line is he is a nice guy and you can ask him anything as long as it is done right.
I hope to speak to him again sometime in the spring perhaps March or April. And Todd Satogata is preparing a beautiful version of the discography for him.
Anybody who thinks they could have done a better job, can go jump off a bridge for me. So don't complain. To Sue Town, sorry I didn't mention your name but we sure talked about you. Should have mentioned the word Paperlate more. And he is at least aware of the Internet and it's wonderful possibilities. All he needs is a nice letter which I hope to write explaining some more details etc.
You know what guys it's hard to talk about old Genesis especially specific questions, cause he just doesn't remember. As someone mentioned at heart he is a guitar player who loves making music and I could tell he got excited when we talked about what he listens to as well as new album stuff. He seemed to really want to know our reaction to the new album, especially since we offer a worldwide reaction.
And boy did he get pissed about that remaster packages. I made him suffer through three/four points on the my mistake list and he begged me to stop reading, then even added his own mistake that seemed to get him pissed as well. Score one for Paperlate! The same mistake will not be repeated for the upcoming TRIPLE BOX SET OF 3 TO 4 CDS EACH!!!!!
But we now need a concise list of packaging mistakes to send Hit & Run. I will start that thread in a couple of days. And we can probably rap up our package to be sent to england. FED EX preferably right after the new year.
Thanks everybody for all the great questions, and sorry if I didn't use yours. It was a tremendous juggling act for me so please understand.
Deb, your ripples question didn't make it, by about 3 minutes. He had to go what can I say. Had the perfect chance to bring it up too. But had to stess more important points, sorry.
I always used to dream about interviewing Genesis constantly, you remember that dream thread. In fact the last dream I had resulted in my renewed efforts that resulted in this interview and I am glad to say that I am no longer waking up from those dreams only to realize it was an illusion, even though it seemed so real. I can now wake up and enjoy the memory, instead of the longing for what could have been. God bless you all.
(what a sappy ending)
Ricardo
From paperlate-owner@atom.ansto.gov.au Tue Dec 20 01:09:08 1994
December 19, 1994.
Interview by Ricardo David
© 1994 Ricardo David
Ricardo David = RD:
comments in brackets [ ] are my own.
Mike Rutherfod does not call at the scheduled time and after about an hour
and a half of waiting in a state of mild depression I fall asleep on my
couch. Then the phone rings and in a daze I jump into my portable recording
studio set up for this thing, press record and pick up the phone!
RD: Hello
MR: It's Mike Rutheford here.
RD: Hi, how are you?
MR: Hi, I'm sorry I am a bit late.
RD: Oh, that's ok, I just, uh, talking a nap. [had to tell the truth]
MR: (laughs) RD: (laughs)
MR: right, RD: so I'm fine
RD: Well, first of all thanks for calling. For us on our computer mailing list
it's exciting for us to say the least.
MR: Great!
RD: I guess I would like to start of by saying thanks for the music and try to
explain a little bit about how we work, and if you have any questions or
anything
MR: sure
RD: We run on the world wide network called the internet, (MR: alright, yeah)
which basically just the connection of university computers, corporate
computers, and now private individuals. So like a few weeks ago someone
noticed that from the radio, that you had a new album coming out, they got
on their computer and mailed our main computer which is actually based in
Australia believe it or not, (MR: gasps in disbelief) So that thing gets
copied and sent to, I believe we got 550 something people on the list now. So that gets sent to all 550 something people and then within minutes of that person hearing that on the radio, if they have their computer right there, they would know that, ok, Mike's got a new album coming out, this is what is happening. So you can image that type of connectivity, in terms of information, or interviews...
MR: Sure, I was in New York recently, and some radio station, Z100 I
believe, had some sort of christmas, acoustic, concert at Madsion Square
Garden, and back stage they had this same thing, link up to Internet. They
were kind of talking to people who were playing. That was quite nice and
interesting to see how it worked. [He would be blown away by Ade's Genesis home
page, should have mentioned it, well next time more on that later]
RD: Yeah really it's kind of incredible, I mean, I deal with this stuff every
day and I am continually amazed by what this does. And it's really just helped
out. I mean just me personally, from a fan point of view, like, ok, How do
find out about what album or B-sides, or I've heard about these old Genesis
iongs, or something, how do I get an old tape from somebody, maybe through
a trade or something. That's the kind of thing that we try and do just sort of
common interests on the side. Typically we are all college students or
professionals or professionals:
MR: Well, great [sounds lame in typing but you can hear the geniune emotion in
his voice]
RD: Well, glad you've seen the Internet then, maybe we will see you on there
some time.
MR: yeah (laughs)
RD: Ok, so, let me get my list of questions here. You'll have to excuse me if
I am a bit nervous, I don't do this everyday.
MR: (laughing) Don't worry, it's only me. RD: yeah, that's true.
RD: We've heard through the Internet, [should have said paperlate, did you
notice I haven't said it once yet? But he has the fax I sent him right in
front of him with that huge Paperlate logo]
We've heard throught the Internet, that um, you have a new album called
Beggar on a Beach of Gold, is that correct?
MR: Yup.
RD: How did you come up with the title?
MR: That was a song I wrote with B.A. Robertson. We were just messing around
and uh, he actually came up with the title. He just actually came up with
the title, it just seemed to suit the song.
RD: So that is the name of the song as well.
MR: And um, it is just a nice idea really, in this day and age sort of everyone
chasing around in circles, chasing after something, some material or some
goal and the song is just sort of saying, if you take the time to look around
you or within you, you've probably, got what you need right there.
RD: oh yeah, I get it. [suddenly the album name makes sense]
MR: The album cover which I am really pleased with this time. It's a nice
image of a beggar, it's actually me really, could be anyone really, sitting
on this huge long beach made up of gold coins. And there I am begging, I can't
see that I am sitting... what I'm after.
RD: Sounds pretty neat. So you mentioned B.A. Robertson. You've worked with
him in the past, has helped on all the songs then.
MR: I've written with him and Chris Neil, the producer, again. Quite a bit
more with Paul Carrack this time.
RD: That' was one of my questions actually, you've written four of them
on Word of Mouth with Carrack.
MR: This time there are 13 songs on the album. There are 4 or 5 with Chris.
Maybe 4 with B.A. 2 with Paul Carrack, although I did write about six with
Paul Carrack, but two came out really well. There's also a couple of cover's
on there.
RD: Yeah, that's what we heard in particular someone said, Steve Wonder's
Song, "I believe", is that true?
MR: Yeah "I believe, then I fall in love" [?] I'm not quite sure why it
happened, my manager Tony Smith said to me "Look, the Mechanics have a
sound, why don't try some covers and see if the sound still remains the
same., will you still have the same sound, you know. (RD: Yeah) But it's
done fairly straight, with a bit more of guitar based chorus, but the
other song, "You've really got a hold on me'" which is a Smokey Robertson
[sp?] song.. I'm really pleased with because that's a very different
version that a version than the original. And in the end I felt very
wrong about putting two covers on because I thought, maybe it's because
my ego as a writer, I thought this is not right to do. But at the end of
the day they sound very, very, good these songs so I thought the hell
with it.
RD: Why did you pick those particular two songs.
MR: The Stevie Wonder song, we kind of make a list, myself and Paul
Carrack. The Stevie Wonder song was one of my all time favorites.
And not that well known a song either really.
RD: Yeah, I, uh, I've never heard of it. [reluctantly admits]
MR: When you hear.... How old are you?
RD: I'm 24.
MR: Then it's probably before your time, so to speak. It still sounds
as good now as it ever did. It hasn't dated. I was please with that.
Then Chris Neil had the idea with the other one.
RD: You mentioned that Tony Smith said that why don't you guys do this
and see if the (Mike & The Mechanics) sound remains the same. You seemed
to be pleased, did you find that, indeed, the sound stayed the same. Or
was it sufficiently...
MR: Well, what I was pleased with was that the two covers we did definitely
had a Mechanics sound to them. Although I am not the best Judge of this.
I think the Mechanics have a sound. Quite often you can hear a track and know
that that probably is the Mechanics. Apart from just the voices I mean that
we have a certain sort of way of doing things. Cause this is now, I guess
this is four albums in ten years. Which sounds more substantial than I
realize, in fact.
RD: [bumbling] Yeah, it's like now you guys... It's no longer this little
thing for you, You have these albums in ten year already. When I was
preparing for this I was looking at when did these albums come out and
I was like geez, this is no longer a new thing for you.
MR: Yeah, I think that each time we get together and develop more a
relationship really.
RD: So how did that work this time around in terms of the writing.
Somebody mentioned that before the last Genesis album you had two
M&TM albums, and now your back together again, did you find it
refreshing to get back into the studio with the rest of the band.
MR: Yeah, uh, you know there are going to be simularities between
Genesis and the Mechanics, cause I mean in both... the
Mechanics have a different way of doing things. The music is
less dramatic. I enjoy that. Slightly more R&B, Paul is comfortable
with a fairly strong R&B bass, and I am quite English even when I
try not to be.(RD: (laughs)) You get this certain kind of thing I
suppose. And the drummer Peter Van Hooke has got a certain way of
playing too.
RD: So know you find that everyone is really comfortable working
together, like you said the four albums.
MR: Yeah, it's like any relationship it gets better all the time.
If it working it gets better each time. I think the songs I wrote
with Paul Carrack, like on the Word of Mouth album that was our
first time writing together. That is always just a difficult sort
of process just sort of starting off. And I like the songs,
but I think this time our writing has improved an awful lot
more.
RD: So are you still with the same people, Paul Carrack, Adrial Lee,
Peter Van Hooke, Paul Young.
MR: This time around Adrian Lee didn't do very much, I suppose
because the songs I wrote with Paul Carrack he played the
keyboards on. And I played a lot of keyboards on this album (RD: Really,
(in an unbelievable tone)) I can't play keyboard I play guitar on
a synthesizer. Midi that up to the keyboard. I played a lot of those.
By the time you get past that there wasn't much left to do. And B.A.
Robertson played quite a lot on our songs too. So there wasn't
much for him to do this time really. [does this mean he was even
there?]
RD: But basically that same sort of core is still there.
MR: Yeah, and I also used on some track, another drummer this
time as well, Gary Wallace [sp?], he goes out with the Pink
Floyd as a second drummer.
RD: Ok, let's see [while looking at my list] Just some of the
things I want to get straight in terms of the new album, uh,
Beggar on The Beach of Gold, obviously, that is going to be
the first single. Is that correct?
MR: No, it's not.
RD: Oh, really, What is the first single then?
MR: In England the single is called "Over my shoulder", which
is a Paul Carrack, Robertson track with me. In America they've
chose "Mea Culpa" (RD: "My Fault" [trying to show how bright I am])
I, uh... It was there choice, I wouldn't have chosen it for the
first single, it's a nice song. I would have preferred "Beggar on
a Beach of Gold" It's a nice atmospheric song, it is a moody song.
It's probably not a hit single.
RD: That is a sort of a Virgin/Atlantic type of decision. Is that
correct?
MR: I leave that to them. I learnt in the past, I mean, I don't
make singles, I make an album. Maybe I got a couple of singles
on it.
RD: Along with that then, some people were interested in terms of
is there any sort of left over songs that might appear as B-sides
later on.
MR: Yeah, I should have told you about this, I recorded loads of
songs, I recorded about 21 songs. Including the two cover
versions, so I wrote 19 original songs. And 11 are on the
album, so that leaves...
RD: Can you throw out a couple of working titles, I mean I can
hear it already, you throw out 21 something songs, people will
be like "what are these songs".
MR: There is about seven of the songs that aren't on there.
RD: Are they recorded or are they just...
MR: Oh, they are recorded and mixed and finished.
RD: (surprised) Oh, really.
MR: There very good, I started with these many songs thinking that
some will fall by the wayside. And nothing really did. I said to
myself and see, You've got a big choice to come from. In the end
the album is due out in the autumn. But it got bumped back when
I ran a bit late, and stuff, and Tony Smith said why not wait
until after the christmas rush, so to speak. So I had about
four or five months to choose all these songs. I never before
had so many different running orders.
RD: Yeah, I can't believe the amount of music you have recorded
So again, will those be coming out on singles, you think?
MR: They'll be coming out on B-sides.
RD: Ok, well, sounds like there is a lot to buy. [that just flew out
of my mouth, can't believe I said it, it's just I saw a lot of peoples
wallets get emptier :)] (nervous laughter on my part only)
RD: So are you planning on touring as well?
MR: Yeah, were looking at touring Europe in June, and then maybe America
in July, August. We will probably do something of a shared bill in
America, you know.
RD: Anybody in particular with have you thought about?
MR: No, I've had a few, and I don't wan't to say cause, I've had
a few thoughts, and it's wrong to say in advance until it sort of
comes together. But I would like to say that the last time the
Mechanics went out, we had a decent size lighting rig and the
bit stage production and stuff. It didn't do us any harm and it
looked nice, but the Mechanics don't really need that. We did a
gig recently, Virgin's celebrating 21 years of Virgin records
over here.
RD: Yeah, I saw that on TV actually. It was kinda nice.
MR: And you know, it was just the back light, and there was nothing
much too it. And to me the more contrast with Genesis really the
better.
RD: You want to get away from the big sort of...
MR: Yeah, someone ringing me up in the afternoon and saying the
"the lighting rig won't fit in the building".
RD: Keep it sort of.. (MR: fun! ) Sure...
RD: Ok, let's see, in terms of the new album was there any particular
mood you were trying to go for. Although it seems with 21 songs it
would be hard to same mood, is there a theme or anything?
MR: No, as a songwriter, you end up with an album not with a similar
theme, cause some are very positive songs and some are very cutting.
RD: (silence)
MR: um.. (silence)
RD: That was um, probably..., bad question. (laughs)
MR: (laughs a bit) Well, you know it's difficult, what I'm saying is
when you start talking about the album that I did a bit in America,
about a month ago. You do find that there is a bit more simularity
that you think.
RD: So that tends to be more from our point of view, as opposed to...
well, you said your probably not the best person to make these
judgements...
MR: yeah.
RD: Well, let me just talk a little bit more about the rest, um..
how I want to go from here is, what we did on Paperlate is say
um, basically I said hey everybody I got this interview. And
everybody sort of sent me questions. MR:(great) So at times
it might sound like your on Rockline, for example, but from
all over the world, although primarily most of the people are in
the U.S. But you'll see with some of these questions when I say
there names and were they are from, that, the cool part is that
we are global, (MR: well that's good) and that's kind of neat.
RD: Well this first one is from Craig Grilley whose in california
and he says he know how you write songs with Genesis but do you
go about that with M&TH, can you contrast the two?
MR: Yeah, well as you probably may or may not know Genesis don't
really take any material into the studio anymore, (RD: yeah) But
with the Mechanics, well that works fine for us because Genesis
have done it for a long time. And it's quite a brave way to
work and we manage to make it work. I find with the mechanics
I tend to go home, I have a little writing room at home, and
I mess around and get a lot of ideas started not finished, some
rythms some grooves, some chord sequences, some bits of songs, and
then I would spend a couple of weeks with B.A Robertson and a
couple of weeks with Chris Neil and then some more time with
Paul Carrack. Very often I will just start with little bits like
that and groove on a, mess around on a groove. Two songs, "Mea
Culpa" and "Over my Shoulder" Started with a drum machine groove
and then we wrote on that.
RD: And then in terms of the recording location this was all done
at The Farm, I gather.
MR: Yeah, Actually what happened this time was a lot different actually
because I actually play a lot of keyboard myself, quite alot of the
keyboard parts I've done at home, I just have a drum machine and work
out the form of the song, with my cowriter, and then I put my part
down on the computer, I got it there. In the past we arrive in the
studio with the Mechanics, and the song is not really anything at
all it's just the song and the chords and we start from scratch with
sounds. This time, alot of the songs came with sounds and the
atmosphere already worked out, at alot more was done at home which
I liked.
RD: Ok, um.. I'm not really a musician but in terms of playing
keyboard, again your talking about MIDI?
MR: Yeah, I can't play keyboards, well I can play three note
keyboards, three finger, I play the guitar on a synthisizer whcih
is just pickup on a regular guitar, into a midi controller which
then plays the keyboards.
RD: Ok, this next one is from Scott McMahan, in North Carolina. And
he wants to know if you were disappointed at all by the reaction to
Word of Mouth and did it's performance in any way, in the charts I guess,
in any way color the new albums writing or recording...
MR: No, had no affect on what happened on this new album, and I have no
control on what happens when it comes out. I just do it. Quite a good
example, I was remember when we wrote the first album without Peter, A
Trick of the Tail, peter gabriel, let's do an intstumental album, because
that's one side of our music which is still the same and which we do
well. And if we get a very vocal album you just can't plan it. Of course
I'm disappointed that it didn't do well, it did better in Europe, but
not very well in America at all. Two things I think that I do know, one is
the first single, Word of Mouth, came out, I went to America
to promote it. When I arrived there I realized it was in trouble because it
felt so out of context with what was going on, it was all rap and dance
and stuff (RD: laughs) And I had sort of a heavy metal track. And funny
enough six months later I went to America there was a new Guns and Roses
and a New Metallica and I think it was rather bad timing, But that's life.
The other thing is that it was a tough album to make, I started with
one producer Rus Titleman [sp?] and after (garbled) I decided it wasn't
working and changed back to Chris Neil, the album did drag on it was
hard to make. Although the good track are very good I think.
RD: Here one that you touched on a bit earlier, and it's from Linda Darling
in Chicago. She said originally your new album was supposed to come out
in November and why the delay. [should not have asked this one was completely
answered earlier, but since I had absolutely no follow up to the Word of
Mouth question I just went to the next one on the list]
MR: I was running a little bit late, cause as I was explaining earlier,
you probably get this again, these many songs, 20 odd songs and I'd
lose probably for or five within the first month, but nothing jumped
out as being weak so I ended up finishing 21 songs, and it took quite
a long time. I could have just made Christmas, but it would have come
out very close to christmas. And my managers felt that the Mechanics
needed a, you know in America and England you get about 20-50 christmas
albums. And he thought [tony smith] A) give it a better space and B)
the lead time. You know we are not around for four years and it takes
a bit of time for the people in the company to remember who we are.
RD: Yeah, that's true, sort of along those lines, what I am planning to
do at least with this obviously is to ... the transcription of this
interview will get posted to everybody who is on Paperlate,, which is
the name of the list, (MR: sure,(reaction like he knows this)) But then I
am going to do a short sort of Magazine type peice for the Internet
at large, so anybody outside of the Genesis world, can see it. (MR:
Great) Carol just mentioned to wait a bit till after the New Year,
Really then the millions on the internet... A lot of people my age
just go on there and find out what's going on in terms of new releases
or albums and it will be great to see advance word and maybe some
question they want answered.
MR: Great!
RD: Ok, well this next one is from Richard and he is from Pittsburg and
he wants to know how you originally got involved with Paul Carrack.
MR: Oddly enough, many years ago I did a solo album called SmallCreep's
Day, which he nearly sang on. He came down to sort of mess around a bit
and then I forget why he didn't do it, it might have been scheduling.
And I used someone else. I have always been a fan of his voice. And he
was actually brought down by B.A. Robertson to sing on a track. And he
sang Silent Running on the first day down here. And it's just worked
every since really. One thing that is great about Paul is that he's
terribly like me is that when you are working together, he's not
precious about anything, in terms of songs you can say anything or
comment, you can say that's good or it doesn't sound great, with
some people when you write with them it's difficult that way.
RD: So from the very beginning, from the first album, he was almost
on there. (MR: Day one it was great) Yeah, well.. I didn't expect
that answer.
RD: Likewise with Chris Neil how did that relationship begin?
MR: He was put in touch with me through a publisher, actually, to write
some songs initially, This is an interesting point actually, I always
forget this, the mechanics were actually like Genesis in their
conception, Genesis started as a song writers, at time when groups
were doing their own material. We had to do our own songs we couldn't
get them don by other people. The Mechanics... I wrote some of these
songs like Miracle and Silent Running, with a view to being a song
writer and other people doing them. But of course, when you send
a very rough, mine alway are, demo of a song that's ten minutes long
to someone that can't really see it. I sent some songs around to no
avail, and then I thought to hell with it, I'll do them myself ant
that's when the mechanics idea sort of started.
RD: So is something like Silent Running and Miracle something you've
had around for a while?
MR: Well, I wrote them and then when I finished them I thought, I sent
them around to some people, publishers, I always wanted to become a
songwriter, (RD: this was before M&TM) Yeah, and then straight after
that I thought the hell with it I will do it myself. I also realized
that the songwriting business is not my cup of tea. I write songs
and I can hear them in my head, but until there done, they are not
like simple songs you can play on the guitar.
RD: Here is another one from Mark Oldfeld in Rosemont, Minnesota,
this is sounding like Rockline isnt' it? (laugh) (MR: (laughs) )
I guess we want to hear our names mentioned.
Do you and Anthony Phillips still keep in touch?
MR: Yup, funny enough I am seeing him for dinner tomorrow night, He's
Godfather to my daughter who is 17, He is a very good Godfather and we
definitely stay in touch. We've been talking recently about this
Genesis sort of box set thing.
RD: Oh yeah, I have a bunch about that later on...
MR: So we'll get to it
RD: Yeah, don't tempt me. :)
RD: In term's of Ant's music do you listen to it, I mean obviously your good
friends you must listen to it.
MR: I got some gaps I don't have it all but I have always very much enjoyed
it.
RD: Sort of along with the covers then what type of music do you actually
listen to now. Like what albums have you recently bought.
[this was cool cause we sort of got into a convesation and i didn't realize
it]
MR: I think what's in my car, I don't listen to music at home. I never sit
down and put a tape on, or a CD I mean, Home is too busy there always
a bit of background, it just something I don't do, homelife is homelife
and I don't get enough of it. I have three children and a wife and I
am always working quite hard so... But in the car I listen a lot.
What have I got in the car, I think Sting.
RD: You mean his new album, that sort of compilation thing?
MR: Yeah, I mean he is in an area that is very grown up, I mean very
quality music. Who else is in there, Beatles, loads of beatles...
My seven year old son has gone Beatle mad, I play all the beatles
album all the time. Almost too much. Prince, greatest hits, I think
Prince is incredibly... How do I say it, I think when he's good
he's brilliant but he's not he's not.
RD: Yeah, I've seen alot of great stuff written about him but I've
seen people kind of dumping on him recently.
MR: In the moment he's gotten into a bit of a bag, a lot of it
cause of his name. But those old songs, like Rasberry Beret, which
is a great song, He's just so brave with his sounds and production.
There is band call Roach Pud [sp?] which is a british R&B band who
are good.
RD: So just in the car just throw in a cassette or whatever.
MR: yeah
RD: Oh, and BTW, I agree with you on Sting I have all his stuff.
MR: You know I got an album from Atlantic REcords the other day
called Hoochie and the Blow Fish and I quite liked that. I like
Pearl Jam, a lot of the new stuff in America is quite nice.
RD: So you do like that sort of new, I'm on a college campus and
the big thing is...
MR: The bits that I like I really like.
RD: Can you throw out a Pearl Jam song or something.
MR: I have a tough time with that one, but who is that other one
that I like. I'm not sure, (trying to remember) My son is playing
them(Pearl Jam) all the time.
RD: But just in General my impression is that... I mean you mentioned
before that coming here to the states and everything was all dance
and stuff and that really... Obviously my tastes in music are
similar to yours because I listen to the stuff you make and now I
love this new, in terms of the bansd like Pearl Jam, I mean the
sound of it. Although it seems now that they are getting too popular
and it is sort of bad thing to like them (laugh) [I really mean what I
saying hear and not just trying to fawn all over him. I really felt
there was no hope in new music around that 1989-91 era, but now
I actually find myself bying new albums, I love the raw energy]
MR: I do alot, I also think what is very nice commercially is that
they are all live gigging playing bands. I liked Stone Temple
Pilots, althought the last album I wan't sure about. Their good
songs are really good I think. I mean they are bands who play
live and just get up and do it.
RD: I think their records sort of sound that way, sort of that
very live feel to it. (MR: yeah,)
RD: This next one is from Ariel in Buenos Aries, Argentina believe it
or not. And he wants to know how you look back on SmallCreep's day
and what it meant for you to complete that first solo effort.
MR: I haven't looked back for a long time (laugh) I haven't heard it.
The trouble is people often ask question about albums and I haven't
heard them for ten years, you know.
RD: Yeah, I heard Tony Banks give a similar answer in terms of uh...
You finish the album, your record it, I mean it's your baby but then you
don't listen to it for a while, is that what you find is the case?
MR: yeah, I haven't heard it for years, but when I think back about it
I was proud of the side that was one whole concept. That I was
proud of. It's one long track. People often think that writing long
songs is clever and easy. It's clever, but you can't just take a small
bit and do it you have to develop it.
RD: I see... that tends to be the impression that doing the longer song
is easy [actually I have seen both points of view on the list, but play
along with the question] At least that's one of the things that people
endlessly talk about on Paperlate, when nothing much is happening I mean
they just sit there debate points back and forth. (MR: sure) In terms
of, especially some of the more musical people on the group, in terms of
doing good short songs vs. the long songs, and obviously a lot of the
more older Genesis fans, I guess, in terms of fans of the older material
are more adamant towards the longer material. [hello, rick did that make
any sense, I think he got the point]
MR: I have one comment about that, it's a big danger these days with
an album with singles and videos, the amount of attention paid to them.
A single can incredibly overshadow a single if you think about it. On
the last Genesis album "Driving the Last Spike" was a very good song.
People forget about it because it didn't have a single and there was
no video. Live, they are always very popular.
RD: Yeah, that one worked well with the whole video that went with that
live, that was really nice. (MR: yeah)
RD: Here is one from Aiden Low in Boston, er... I don't like this
one. (muddled under breath) Are you more comfortable playing
guitar or bass?
MR: I don't know they are both so different. I love the bass cause
you can change the tracks so much. Possibly more than a guitar
sometimes. And when you get it right it is a great groove you can
set up. The problem is you can't play bass guitar on your own, at
least I can't. I only play it when I am writing or rehearsing or
recording something. I play guitar all the time really.
RD: Did you play any 12 string on the new album?
MR: Yes, there is one song based on acoustic guitar. Which is a mixture
of 12 string and 6 string.
RD: Well, he will be happy to hear that.
RD: Ok, can we shift gears to Genesis for a bit is that ok.
(MR: sure) Ok, this one is from me. The Genesis Box set
b-sides album, source of constant rumor and discussion.
Maybe you can help us out a bit.
MR: Yeah, I think we are sort off getting a bit of a focus on it now
with Genesis being pestered by years from the Record companies, to
put out a sort of unreleased B-sides album or some of it is released
in one company and not the other. But the trouble is that always gets
promoted as a new album. So we were against that. So I think we are
aiming towards doing a box set. Probably, actually it will be
3 complete sets, because the first set will be till peter left,
something with the idea of it being some unreleased live music, for
example in the first set. For example no one's ever heard Peter
sing Supper's Ready live, I don't think. [I didn't understand this at
the time
which so then like and idiot I ask about SR later] With Peter, we've
found that we've got
got some old songs that we demoed for the first Genesis album. Which
were never released.
RD: Yeah, I've got on a list here stuff like "The Movement" newer stuff
like Inside and Out Vancouver, Barnaby's Adventure.
MR: Yeah, those come later than those are from the early period. But this stuff
is like unreleased live stuff with Peter singing, and this B-side stuff
that never got released. So there will probably be 3 or 4 discs in there.
Some unreleased live, maybe some of what we think is the best stuff, just
from the record, and some of the stuff people haven't heard. We saw Peter
[gabriel] the other day and had a chat about it. And he's into the idea
of doing it. It's great hearing these songs that were written years ago
Before the Genesis to Revealation album, in fact the thing was great, but
the backing harmonies were terrible. It's interesting. These were sort of
stuff that were never released anywhere.
RD: Yeah, I think some of the interview of Tony Banks done by The Waiting
Room were he mentions some of the early unreleased songs.
MR: One of the songs, one of them which said, Fourteen Jeans Too Long, And
it's actually Fourteen Year to Long. (laughs)
RD: Ok so you've got three box sets, a sort of Peter Gabriel era one, ah
the Great Lost live album which is the second missing album from Genesis
Live, so that will be hopefull on there I imagine. [he said this already
but I didn't hear it clearly at the time] Supper's Ready I guess is the
big one.
MR: What do you mean the Great lost live album?
RD: Well in terms of Genesis Live it was originally supposed to be a
double album. With Supper's Ready on the second disc...
MR: I forgot, It probably was, I mean you tell me (laughs)
RD: (laughs) EVeryone was hoping to get a chance to hear that. I guess
there was some test pressing done in Europe, I think there is a couple
floating around and obviously they are big collector's items, Everyone
was hoping to get a nice copy of that.
[I just wasn't enthusiastic enough in this part, All those thoughts going
through my head, just scrambled my brain arghhhh!]
RD: How are you going about picking the songs, I guess you have 3 box sets
that's alot of space.
MR: We'll begin by looking at the stuff that is not released. And choose...
Maybe not even all of the songs, I am not sure you can hear all of the
songs, there is quite a few. These are demos. I don't know maybe we
will put them together as sort of bits of songs, we'll see. Someone is
going to do a very rough mix of all the live stuff, I mean we are
still feeling our way, and this stuff probably won't come out until
late next year at the earliest. I feel we have an idea of how we are
going to do it now.
RD: yeah, that's great to hear, obviously everyone is really excited
about it. We are really the market for that. And everyone was really
worried that it would just be a B-sides disc, cause there is just so
much material, that there would not be enough space.
MR: Obviously the second lot which is after Peter, would have at that
stage nothing that is completely unreleased somewhere I think, but then
we have those sort of B-sides to go on it.
RD: Will there be any live bits on there in terms of stuff like left
over bits from Three Sides Live.
MR: I am sure yes.
RD: Sounds good, is there going to be any history booklet or something?
MR: Yeah, we haven't gotten anything yet, but the next stage is to do
all the live stuff and see what we've got.
RD: great, let's see here, you've answered this one (toss question sheet)
MR: The trouble, is, it's worth mentioning, that it talks an awful lot of
work, and we are all quite busy doing other things. I think we are going
to get Geoff Callingham to do all the rough live mixes, and then listen
to it.
RD: So then you would sit down and sort of get an idea of what you want.
MR: Choose the evening, I mean choose the version and then mix them
proper later.
RD: This next on is from Anton, near you somewhere at the University
of Edinburgh (MR: yeah!) in the UK.
YOu mentioned the beatles earlier, and someone on Paperlate found a
London Reuters news article about the success of the beatles recording
from the BBC archives. And this article mentions Genesis material as
well, and to quote it, it says
"Genesis as far as I know are not interested in putting out this material,
people are trying to get them to agree"
I imagine this has to do with your own box set plans, as well as not...
MR: I think some of that stuff, is well, we're trying to find them
actually. (laughs) There a couple of BBC versions of songs we did.
RD: Do you know what these are actually, someone said, "Hogweed" or
"Musical Box"?
MR: No actually these are songs you never heard.
RD: Oh really, again the stuff pre-dating From Genesis to Revelation?
MR: Yup.
RD: Well here is a chance to mention something that we are sort of Proud
of, we have a pretty massive discography. As a matter of fact it is like
300 pages, It has everything in terms of Genesis, obviously even in terms
of your solo work, B-sides, Um.. Bootlegs, (MR: sounds nice) We were just
wondering if you would like a copy. It's pretty incredible in term sof
anything that has ever been released, the album, the album numbers, singles,
videos, etc.
MR: Yeah, I am very lacking in all that stuff.
RD: Yeah, we would love to send you a copy, I mean this thing is huge, And
you can imagine again with 550 people each with their own little collection
or stuff they have just seen, that when we collectively pool it, it's great.
So that someone like myself who wants to see what was released in a
particular time frame can go look and it's incredibly detailed. The couple of
guys who did it, actually Scott McMahan, in North Carolina, I believe, spent
an enormous amount of time compiling all this information. And again we think
that it is an incredible resource.
MR: Do send me a copy, send a copy to Carol at the office.
RD: Yeah, we'll send it to Carol.
MR: Great, I would really like to see it. [makes all your hard work seem
worthwhile, huh, Scott. Glad I could deliver for you.]
RD: Yeah, we would appreciate your comments or reaction.
It's pretty, I mean it's pretty,well it's huge, I mean we've
never actually printed it out (MR: laughs) So someone is going to
do that. Cause primarily we just keep it all electronic and get it
by section.
RD: This next one is from Linda Darling in Chicago. Ok the box set has
been talked about in the past as a retirement gift to the fans. And as
you know in between every Genesis album there is rumors that "Genesis
is dead" I guess the concern is are there any plans at this point in
terms of Genesis.
MR: Like you said everytime, like you've said (laughs) Let me just ...
RD: Yeah it always comes up but I have to ask it.
MR: All I can say is we finished the last album and tour on a positve
note. With the intention to record again we finished our kind of solo
stuff. '95 is filled pretty much, I think I filled on tour to the Far
East, till about end of May, Mechanics go on tour in the summer I hope.
So most of next year is fairly busy. I guess we'll talk half of next
year and see were we are at really, as to fixing a date.
RD: yeah, that is about what I expected like I said you always hear
that question, asked all the time.
MR: I think one of the things we've always done in the past is that if
you go away with this date hanging over you it rather spoils it. It's
nice to forget about it for a while. Then after working with the
Mechanics for a while then I look forward to working with Phil and
Tony again.
RD: I think the problem is people take isolated comments in individual
interviews and then extrapolate that out this big ole "Genesis is dead"
that you see occasionally.
MR: Well they have been saying it for the past fifteen years.
RD: Yeah, I was laughing before thinking that now I am the one who is
going to ask this question. After hearing it 10,000 times...
RD: You just mentioned touring quickly, the person who runs the list is
in Australia, she liked to know if the Mechanics are going to get out
there. Japan as well as a matter of fact.
MR: Well, if someone will have us we will go there, I am going to call
the Mechanics tour, "have back line, will travel" Back line is the
background of gear you know. (laughs)
RD: (laughs) Since you don't have too much lighting equipment I'm sure
you can set up in her living room and play for her.
MR: That's the whole thing, the mechanics should be able go anywhere and
set up for a couple of weeks and it should not be a big deal.
RD: Are there any music videos for the new album?
MR: Well, I guess each single has a video that will go with it. I guess it
is something I will think about it nearer the time. Videos are fun
when they come out nice, but they don't always and it's hard to know
quite why.
RD: Is there anyone in particular that you didn't care for?
MR: Oh yeah, with the Mechanics, the last album, Word of Mouth is okay
but the other ones I wasn't too happy with.
RD: Well what makes a video work?
MR: Well when you have humor it's great. But some songs just don't work,
you know. Videos in a way can be a pain in the ass because, there are
songs you just can't make videos for. I Can't Dance was very good
video. That's a nice song to make a video for.
RD: Yeah, it was humourous already pretty much.
MR: The funny thing about that video, I mean we never spend that much
money on videos compared to some people. In the verses we spent a bit
of time and effort doing the scenarios, in the I can't dance one, but
the thing about the video that everyone likes and is the best thing, is
the silly walk. Which took half an hour to do. A good idea is always
going to be better than money spent, so to speak.
RD: On the big production...
MR: It's funny how that little simple idea, just that silly walk against the
white background is what the video worked on really.
RD; And that whole theme carried through to the live albums and the tour
and everything.
MR: Yeah, exactly. I have this terrible fear, that I'll be.. We'll be
remembered one day for the silly walk and nothing else.
RD: This one is from Henry in Illinios. Disney had a WCD special they
filmed you guys recording at The Farm and somehere in there it said
that 17 songs were written, 14 were recorded, Hearts on Fire and
On the Shoreline were the two B-sides, On the Shoreline is great
by the way, What about those three other songs, are they just bits,
or are they totally finished?
MR: I can't remember what they were, Hearts on Fire on the Shoreline,
and... You reckon there are three others.
RD: Yeah, that's what somone said, I don't actually have a copy of the
special, someone said that, I think it was, it might have been YOU
actually. (laugh)
MR: I can't remember, is the honest answer.
RD: ok
MR: I could find out. [we need to hit him again on this, you pester him to
the point that he hates us :)] When an album is finished I sort of forget
about it you know. I never use songs from one album on the next album.
Because they are sort of history for me. If they weren't good enough to get
on one album, they shouldn't be on the next album.
RD: that's true.
RD: ok, this next one is from me, in Chicago, or in champaign right now
actually, middle of farm country. [why i told him that I have no idea]
This has to do with the recent Genesis remaster's, and this particular
comment, I'm not going to talk about the sound and stuff first, there
was some debate as to whether I would bring this up we didn't want to
sound like we were a bunch of complainers. The nature is such that
we felt it important enough to mention it to you. I want to talk
about the packaging.
There is just a lot of like errors, typos, wrong dates, misinformation,
really spread ought throughout the whole series. I just wanted to
say that we would love to send a corrected list to Carol, if possible just
so that at the next printing.
MR: Yes, I agree, I mean I was pissed off, I mean according to this
new version I didn't write Ripples.
RD: What's that? [had trouble hearing]
MR: They got the song writing wrong.
RD: [and now I go in for the kill] Actually if you want to get specific
simple things like it terms of Wind & the Wuthering, mixed up photographically
in terms of order, but then something like the UK version of Live, Genesis
Live, has the band member wrong, real simple like typography stuff, like
in terms of lyrics like the work "the" were 't" would be on one line and
"he" on the next. The Lyrics and stuff like Battle of Epping Forest is
split up...
MR: (pissed, but in a good way) Don't tell me anymore, my head will
start spinning.
[and we have a winner, Paperlate the heavyweight champion
of the Genesis world, by a knockout]
RD: Good, well that's good.
MR: Yeah, I mean I agree. I mean they got the songwriting wrong I wasn't
credited with righting Ripples. [boy is that a sore point or what]
YOu know it's typically because your busy doing new things so in
a way.
RD: Well, we figured you weren't in front of a computer typing this up
it had to be somebody else.
Well, obviously since we sit there and buy the thing, flip through
the booklets and stuff carefully, we are very familiar with the material.
MR: Can you hang on one second, hang on one second.
RD: Sure
back about 10 seconds later
MR: Hello, ok I've got to go quite soon.
RD: Ok, well I can send off a list to Carol we just wanted to help you and
let you know.
RD: The sound on the remasters, is just fantastic, Things like your
bass playing on Second's Out sounds great The Lamb for example is just
unbelievable, have you listened to them at well.
MR: well to be honest the real credit goes to Geoff Callingham and Nick
Davis, we were asked a question and listened sometimes. I can't, I mean
I'd much rather... I was working on the the new mechanics album. actually
at the time. Although we were doing it in studio two here, [so that places
him at the farm in studio two] And um.. it sounded great. I think they
got it quite right. I don't think they've changed things to much but
enough to improve it you know. You don't want to do too much. But I
am glad you people like it. [he said that in nice way not like "you
people" and that negative way]
RD: Yeah, that's what I am saying because we didn't want to seem nitpicky
in terms of packaging. We were just so happy to get these incredible
versions and hearing things that we've never heard before.
MR: Nick did try very hard. He got the mix about right.
RD: Ok, there is just one last point then if you have to get running.
This has to do with the history in terms of Genesis as to whether it
is a bit of a cage at times for you. Obviously you get a lot of
questions or comments, like" Why don't you play Supper's Ready" or
"why don't you shoot the drum machine and do more Genesisy Progressive
pieces" All these sort of off hand comments occasionally from what
you would call a more diehard fan. (MR: sure) Do you feel that at
times that it's a bit of cage, do you know what I am saying.
MR: No, not really, everyone we know has a certain era of Genesis
which is probably the first time they get into it, which they love.
That will always be. Probably five years ago their favorite ablum
was the new album. It doesn't and I will tell you why. And this
shouldn't be taken the wrong way. Is that when I work, or when
we work and write new stuff, I only have one directive which is
to satisfy me. If I ever start thinking about Genesis fans or
M&TM fans, and what they want to hear, then I'm lost. YOu have
to sort of do what you like. And you know it's not a selfish thing.
You do it, but you hope they like it. Otherwise I think you have
no way to judge what you are doing. It's very important. LIke
someone asked if the last Mechanics album affected this album. When
I go into write nothing has any effect apart from what comes out on
that day and if I like it or not. The only way I can judge anything
is how it feels to me. When i do work and write and record, you have
to be selfish. True to yourself and not worry about anything. And not
worry about what other people might think about it until it is finished.
And then you worry. (laughs)
Then when you finish you think I hope someone likes it.
RD: I guess that the big concern was um.. almost a negative reaction
in terms of things you have done in the past. For example Phil Collins
has mentioned not liking some of the older stuff as much, I think people
just wanted, to, I particularly just wanted to feel you out in terms of
your reaction or felling are about some of your previous work.
MR: Well, umm. this all really comes off as if there are these terrible
things, I mean I have really heard the past to much (laughs) I mean
the other day I was in the car with Tony and I were in a car, I'm sorry
this is the other day, I mean two years ago in Dallas and we heard some
old songs, Genesis songs, what where they, what came after...maybe on
the album called Genesis, the mama album [this is old?} and that sounded
great. I haven't heard them for about ten years. So we are not very
good judges of the past. But never underestimate Genesis we can always
surprise people.
RD: Well if you guys tour again, we love to hear like one whole
older number. Like Home by the Sea was great to hear live.
RD: Is there any questions that you have of us. Or anything we can do.
MR: No, um. I'd just like to see all the stuff you can print up, from
the Internet. I think all this stuff is great. It's global and it's
spontaneous. [mission accomplished for me]
RD: The main point I think that I would like to get across, is that
this is not like a newsletter with just a couple of us running it.
Ok I may be doing this interview, but only because I have been
persistent in terms of faxing Carol, for the past how many years.
MR: I was very surprised the other day when actually I went to
this thing at Madison Square Gardens and they had went into this
room and had this internet thing set up. It was interesting.
RD: The great part is everybody has an equal voice. I mean like
every day I you check your mail and somebody will say well I think
this is great or I think this is bad. (MR: yeah) and then
people will talk about it.
MR: Yeah, the idea of an open global discussion is great.
RD: It really works and with the Intenet has been growing it's
been doubling in size every year. With all this coming technology
we just plan to get bigger and bigger.
MR: It will go very fast very soon I think.
RD: [should have described ade's home page here, damn!] It really
is at that exploding point.
MR: yeah I agree.
RD: Well, we hope to get a chance to talk to you again.
MR: Yeah, when the album comes out let's have another conversation.
RD: That's the hard part we don't know what to ask about the new
album.
MR: I hope you like, at least I do (laughs)
RD: Yeah, we'd love to do that, the problem with this interview
is that since we didn't hear the new album, it's hard, we didn't
want to dwell too much in the past.
MR: Well when you've heard the new album ask some more questions.
MR: Alright, nice talking to you Ricardo.
RD: Thanks a lot.
MR: Bye, bye.
RD: Bye
* click *
© copyright 1994 Ricardo David
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 1994 23:44:58 -0600
From: Ricardo David
To: paperlate@atom.ansto.gov.au
Subject: the Paperlate Mike Rutherford Interview
Sender: paperlate-digest-owner@ansto.gov.au
Reply-To: paperlate@atom.ansto.gov.au
Content-Length: 50093
Status: RO
X-Lines: 1132Mike Rutherford talks to Paperlate
article may be freely electronically
distributed but no printed copies or
quotes with out expressed written consent
of the author.
Mike Rutherford = MR:
