BITS AND PIECES OF

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Contents:

Artist          Source
------------    ------
GTR:            Chicago Tribune, Thurs, August 7, 1986
Genesis:        Chicago Tribune, Sun, Sept. 28 1986
Review:         We Can't Dance, Chicago Tribune, Sun, Nov 10 1991
Genesis:        Chicago Tribune, Sun, Nov. 10, 1991
Genesis:        Excerpts from Genesis: A Biography, 1992
Genesis:        Chicago Tribune, June 25, 1992
Review:         Way We Walk, Chicago Tribune, Thurs, January 21,1993
Phil Collins:   Chicago Tribune, Sunday Nov 7, 1993
Phil Collins:   UPI 1993
Phil Collins:   excerpts from interview part 2, Teletext UK, 14 Nov 1993
Phil Collins:   An extract from TODAY 29 October
Phil Collins:   NY Times, 14 November 1993
Phil Collins:   Arsenio Hall Interview, December 9, 1993
Phil Collins:   Larry King Live, December 13, 1993

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Chicago Tribune
Thursday, August 7, 1986
Section 5 pg 6
by Gary Graff

                2 GUITAR ACES DEAL WINNING HAND AT GTR
                       Knight-Rider Newspapers

   Steve Hackett remembers a weekend almost 15 years ago when his
band, Genesis and the group Yes-leaders in the "progressive rock" boom
of the early 70s -played the same hall in Scotland on successive
nights.
   Hackett went to the Yes concert to check out the band and his
counterpart, guitarist Steve Howe. "I remember being impressed and
feeling the task was quite formidable following them," he says now.
   Little did he know that in 1986, he'd be co-leading a band with
Howe and that the group, GTR, would end up in the top 20 with its
first single and album.
   For Hackett, 36, the sucess is a coming out of sorts. When he left
Genesis in 1977, the group had a strong loyal following but had hardly
achieved its current mainstream success. And Hackett's solo career
pushed him only further into obscurity.
   For the 39-year-old Howe, on the other hand, GTR is more like a
rescue mission from Asia, the band founded with fellow "progressive"
musicians Carl Palmer, John Wetton, and Geoff Downes after he left Yes
in 1981. Asia brought him commercial success- its debut album sold 4
million copies-but the limited scope of its pop-oriented material,
plus some internal dissension that caused Wetton to be kicked out
temporarily, began to bore him.
   "In September of 9184, we were getting ready to start the 'Astra'
album," Howe said. "We had some of the material ready, and John was
back in the group, so there was a really good feeling. But that didn't
seem to last.  Problems started recurring, and it was all downhill. I
was very glad to get out of that."
    Neither Hackett nor Howe thought of working with the other off the
bat.  Howe's manager, Brian Lane, made the suggestion; years ago he
told Hackett to contact him it the guitarist was ever interested in
forming a band.  Hackett took him up on the offer last year, and Lane
put the two musicians together.
    "We pretty rapidly formed a [song] writing relationship, which is
really what we were both looking for," Howe said. "After that, it was,
'Let's form a group.' "
    Collaboration-merging two different guitar playing styles proved
to be easy for the duo. "It was all very gentlemanly," Hackett said.
"We'd say, 'After you,' and then one would follow the other. It was a
very normal process, really."
    Added Howe, "We're both confident and assertive. We weren't
egotistically bound to fall out. We can make room for one each other."
    Howe and Hackett filled out GTR [named after a recording industry
abbreviation for their instrument] with veterans of minor British rock
bands: singer Max Bacon came from Night-wing and Bronz; bassist Phil
Spalding from Original Mirrors, Mike Oldfield and Toyah; and drummer
Jonathon Mover from Marillion. After hassling with Geffen Records,
Asia's label, over artistic control, the group signed with Arista
Records after playing only rehearsal tapes.
    So far, the project, which debuted in teh spring with the single
"When the Heart Rules the Mind," is being embraced much the same way
Asia was by old Yes and Genesis followers and by younger fans who have
heard those groups' early works on radio or from their older siblings'
album collections.
    And all that give Howe and Hackett reason to plan for the long
term.
    "We'd like to think so," said Howe, who has two solo albums to his
credit.  "The group will most obviously succeed very well with this
record, on our own terms. There are two ways to go-into commercialism
or into obscurity.  We've taken the middle road, and we've been able
to hold onto some of our more artistic ideals."


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Chicago Tribune
Sunday, Sept. 28 1986
Sec 13 p16
by Van Matre, Lynn


                                RE-GENESIS
                 Band finds success without Phil Collins

   He was described again and again as an unlikely superstar-- a
relatively nondescript-looking "regular guy," more likely to be seen
sporting a rugby shirt or unhip argyle sweater than trendy designer
duds and a fashionably, chic persona. Nevertheless, Phil Collins spend
most of last year being just about the hottest act around.  On a break
from Genesis, the hugely popular, mainstream British pop band he had
fronted for a decade, the drummer-turned -singer saw his third solo
album, "No Jacket Required," spend four weeks at the No. 1 in the
spring of 1985; it would eventually sell more than 5 million copies
and spawn several hit singles, including the No. 1 ranked "One More
Night."
   He had no plans to leave Genesis, Collins insisted earl on, as his
solo career began its meteoric rise. But by late summer, when he
embarked on a triumphant 1985 stadium tour, it was clear that Collins
no longer was depandent upon Genesis for his artistic expression or
commercial success.  There was no real reason fo him to return at all,
some fans speculated, recalling a Rolling Stone interview that "poor
old Genesis" did get in the way of his mushrooming career as a solo
artist and producer. It seemed as if the writing was on the wall-- or
at least, the question scrawled there was too big to ignore; Would
Genesis end up a casualty of Collins' success [assuming that it hadn't
alread]?
   It hadn't, and it didn't.  The band's current tour, which brings
them to Rosemont Horizon for no less than six nights, Oct 5 through
10, is proof that they're still together.  And, as keyboard player
Tony Banks tells it, while pop fans were pondering the band's future,
he and guitarist Mike Rutherford-- the two who presumably should be
most concerned over Collins' possible defection--weren't worried at
all about Genesis' future.
   "When we finished [the Genesis album before the current one], we
made a date to meet again in about 18 months to start recording
together again," Banks, who admits that he and Rutherford were
"surprised" by the extent of Collins' solo success. "We were planning
to tour again all along. All of us have always done solo projects, but
because Phil obviously had such a high profile period we were apart, a
lot of people assumed that the band must [be finished]. As far as we
were concerned, it was always going."
   Banks, who co-founded Genesis with several of his schoolmates in
the mid 1960s [Collins was recruited in the early 1970s], approaches
the matter of Collins' other career and its impact on Genesis with
better grace than one might be expected, considering that it's
something that he is asked about continually.
   "I might be sick of talking about the whole thing by the end of the
tour," cheerfully acknowledges Banks. "But I kind of anticipated the
questions. Obviously, he has become such a successful solo artist, the
subject is going to come up all the time. But it doesn't affect the
interband relationship.  It hasn't affected the way we go about doing
our own music.  And it probably doesn't do the band any harm; it gives
us the chance for wider audience. Some people might react differently
than I do, but in the main, I think it all helps. It's just more
publicity."
   Has Collins' solo success created any ego problems within the band?
"I don't think so, really, not at this stage," says Banks.
   "I mean, if this had happened when we were much younger, it would
have probably have been more of a problem," adds the keyboard player,
who, like Collins and Rutherford, is in his mid-30s. "I don't think
the band would have had the strength to stay together. Now, though,
we've got so much history behind us as a group, that it's no problem.
It's all been quite fun, really. Obviously, the essential thing to
making it all work is Phil's attitude, and he keeps a very level head.
He's more confident now than he used to be, but he still enjoys
working within the Genesis framework."
   Banks terms the response to the current Genesis tour, which
includes multi-night engagements in a number of cities, as "a bit
frightening."  He explains, "We hand't even finalized what we were
going to be doing in the show, and people had bought tickets all over
the place. We have always tried to put on good live shows, but....
Sometimes you wonder if people are expecting too much."
   The new show, which depends largely on sophisticated computerized
lighting system for visual special effects, will feature plenty of
music from the band's past and present, including material from their
new million- selling album, "Invisible Touch."  But don't expect
Collins to do any of his solo hits or Rutherford to reprise anything
from his recent hit album and his other band, Mike & the Mechanics.
[Bank's recent solo projects have been instrumental film scores for a
couple of movies, "neither of which did particularly well."]
   "It's a totally Genesis show," confirms Banks, who notes that one
of the best things about working with the band is its democratic
approach. "We all write the songs," he says, "so we're all equally
involved. That's how we've always tried to do things, right from the
word go. Everybody in the group has a right to voice his opinion and
try to get his own way.
   "When we had five people in the group, that obviously created a
certain amount of friction," adds the keyboard player, referring to
the years before guitarist Steve Hackett and theatrical vocalist and
front man Peter Gabriel left the band for solo careers. [Gabriel, who
occasionally has shown up at Genesis concerts and joined his old
bandmates for an impromptu encore or two, enjoyed mainstream success
earlier this year with the hit single, "Sledgehammer," after years as
a critical cult favorite.] "But now that we are down to three people,
we find it very easy. Nothing is sacred, and anybody can do anything.
Nobody get heavy-handed. We've managed to avoid the kind of situation
where one person tries to rule."
   Until a few albums ago, each of the songs on a Genesis album was
attributed to specific group member or members.  The three now share
song- writing credits equally, reflecting a creative style typified by
their recording seesions for "Invisible Touch."  The album was
recorded at the trio's jointly-owned studio near Surrey, England,
where all three members have homes.
   "Generally, we would go into the studio and switch on the drum
machine," says Banks. "That's the easiest way to start. You go in
there with no music written at all, but once you get something going,
everybody starts improvising. We have played together for a long time,
so we can play off of each other. We do write most of the lyrics
individually-- they come afterwords, and it's much easier that way.
But we write all of the music together.  I don't think that very many
groups do it all together like that, but we find that when we are all
in the same room, the songs take on a character of their won."
   Banks, whose favorite Genesis albums include vintage "Wind &
Wuthering" and "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway," sees "Invisible
Touch" as striking a better balance between various kinds of songs
than Genesis has achieved in the past.
   "For me, this one managed to have good short songs and good long
songs," he says. "In the past-- in the early days, particulary--we
were known for our longer, more adventurous songs, but we were less
good at the short ones. We have gotten better at that-- in fact, on
the two albums preceeding this one, I think that the short songs
started to take over slightly. On this album we've got a better
balance. And the shorter songs are much better.
   "I've always felt that our more ambitious pieces have been our
better ones," adds Banks. "When we give ourselves room to breathe and
explore, we come up with something more interesting, because we aren't
tied to verses and choruses. You can contrast pieces of music, which I
personally find more interesting. But I am also fond of short songs,
when they work. In the past, sometimes I've been less satisfied with
some of our shorter pieces, but I think that we have a lot of good
ones on this album."
   With two decades of history behind them, Genesis isn't about to be
"Throwing It All Away," as the title of their current hit single puts
it, at least for now. But what about the future?
   "Well, if someone had told us when we started out 18 or 20 years
ago that we would still be in this group today, we would have said
that was silly," says Banks.  "We just kind of carry on from period to
period. There may come point where we get disillusioned with it in
some way; anything can happen. But we see no reason at this stage why
we won't go on and do another album together. WE don't look further
adhead than that."

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REVIEW

Chicago Tribune
Sunday, Nov 10 1991
Sec 13 p 14
By Greg Kot


                        'WE CAN'T DANCE' steps safely


   Genesis' 17th album, "We Can't Dance" (Atlantic), is designed to
follow comfortably in the footsteps of its immediate predecessors.
   Like "Duke," "Abacab," "Genesis," and "Invisible Touch," it blends
more accessible shorter tunes with a number of longer tracks, all of
them sung in radio-friendly fashion by Phil Collins.
   "Driving the Last Spike" and "Fading Lights" both check in at
better than 10 minutes, and "Dreaming While You Sleep" exceeds 7
minutes.
   In each case, the tracks don't sound bloated or cumbersome, perhaps
because the instrumentation--drums, keyboards, guitar -- is relatively
sparse.
   The leaner, more streamlined direction that Genesis has taken in
the last decade gives "We Can't Dance" an organic feel that eluded the
band during its earlier, art-rock phase.
   Sonically, the album holds a couple of surprises, notably the
recurring "elephant noise" (actually a guitar sound "sampled" by a
keyboard then slowed down) that serves as an unlikely hook for the
first single "No Son of Mine." And there's the raunchy guitar riff
that drives the tongue-in -cheek "I Can't Dance."
   Much of the rest of the album is rather pedictable pastiche of
Collins' melancholy ballads ("Never a Time," "Hold on My Heart,"
"Since I Lost You") and soft social commentaries that take aim at easy
targets (televangelists in "Jesus He Knows Me") or throw up their
hands in resignation: In "Way of the World," Collins sings, "We all
agree as far as we can see/It's just the way of the world/ That's how
it's meant to be."
   Pitted against the usual Top 40 fodder, "We Can't Dance" sounds
fairly substantial, and fans of post-Peter Gabriel Genesis will
doubtlessly enjoy it. But those who like their music with a rawer,
more challenging edge should look elsewhere.

Rating for "We Can't Dance":   ** 1/2  (two-and-a-half stars)

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Chicago Tribune
Sunday, Nov. 10, 1991
Sec 13 p 14
by Greg Kot


                        IN FOR THE LONG HAUL
           Genesis plumbs the depth of meaning, song length


   Genesis was once considered ahead of its time, an art-rock band
before anybody knew what "art rock" was.
   The tag seemed tailormade for a band whose singer traipsed on stage
dressed as a bat while the instrumentalists wandered off into pseudo-
classical ether for 20 minutes at a time.
   Now, 22 years later, Genesis has turned the narrow nich into a gold
mine. After the departure of singer Peter Gabriel in 1975, Genesis
gradually began edging toward mainstream acceptance and hit the
jackpot in 1986 with the multiplatinum "Invisible Touch."
   The follow-up, "We Can't Dance" (Atlantic), arrives in record
stores on Tuesday. While the members of Genesis--singer-drummer Phil
Collins, guitarist Mike Rutherford and keyboardist Tony Banks--welcome
the wider audience, they say they still don't feel like a mainstream
band.
   "I think people have gotten more used to the area of music that
we've tried to explore over the years," says Banks from the band's
London recording studio. "We are more mainstream, but in a sense we've
created our own bit of the mainstream. In the early '70s people didn't
know what to make of the longer tracks we did, now they find it a
little easier.
   "Obviously our music is a little more direct now, but it still has
many of the flavors that it had in the early '70s and I think a
greater degree of subtlety than you find from quite a lot of bands
today."
   Like its predecessor, "We Can't Dance" is a mix of longer, winding
tracks and shorter more pop-oriented tunes, all played with impeccable
polish.
   The new album's title is a pointed reference to the dance-crazed
state of pop radio. Its first single, "No Son of Mine," checks in at a
radio- deadly 6 1/2 minutes, instead of the three- or four-minute
length prescribed for most would-be hits.
   "We never have and probably won't ever be a dance band or write
good dance songs," Collins says.  "What we try to do is offer music
with more depth to it, and I think because of the length of the song
['No Son of Mine'], it gives the listener a bit more to sink his teeth
into."
   Collins' equation of song length with depth is arguable, but the
tale of child abuse told in "No Son of Mine" isn't typical Top 40
fodder. The song kicks off more than 70 minutes of music on "We Can't
Dance," whcih includes two 10-minute tracks.
   "We seem to be able to get away with longer songs--people aren't
surprised when they hear a 10-minute track from us," Banks says.
"Since they give you more room to breath, they often end up as my
favorite tracks.  I like the way you can change, tell stories and get
contrast between various sections."
   Rutherford adds that Genesis keeps returning to the longer format
because "sometimes you write bits of music that don't work when you
try to turn them into complete songs, but they sound great just
happening once, for a few seconds or for maybe a minute-and-a-half.
   This cut-and-paste songwriting is a natural extension of how
Genesis records.  The three sit in a room, turn on the tape recorder
and start shooting out musical riffs and snatches at lyrics. The best
of these unrelated scraps will then be expanded or spliced together in
a song.
   For this method to work, it's essential for the three to check
their egos at the door. All have recorded solo records and
two--Rutherford, as Mike and the Mechanics, and Collins--have enjoyed
enormous success outside the band.
   "I always listen to the other guys' records in the car and I always
like them to some extent," Banks says. "There are always things you
can criticize, but there are points I can relate to as well, and that
common ground is what we pick up on when we get together.
   "I know there are certain things that Mike and Phil don't like that
I am inclined to do on my own, and same for them, so you don't do
those.  For example, I like a lot of chord changes adn I have a few
things going on at once. But if I try to many, I know I'm going to get
one of those looks across the room. Just like Mike will get one of
those looks if he tries a few too many heavy-metal guitar riffs."
   Yet all three say there's an intangible they find as a trio that
they can't find alone.
   "Working with them I'm pushed into areas that I've not worked with
before," Collins says, "I wrote the lyrics for 'Driving the Last
Spike' [a 10-minute track on the new album about English railway
workers in the 1800s], which is a song that I wouldn't have pursued if
I weren't in Genesis.  Tony normally writes that kind of extended
song, which lends itself to more of a story, but I improvised the
starting point for those lyrics as Mike and Tony were developing their
parts and then finished it later."
   In the same way, Collins' off-the-cuff singing formed the basis for
one of the album's most haunting tracks, "Dreaming While You Sleep."
   "Phil sang the phrase 'Dreaming while you sleep,' and during the
chorus the words 'All my life,'" Rutherford says.  "Those two phrases
suggested a story to me-- not true, by the way--about a driver who
hits a girl and doesn't stop, only to come back to the hospital and
find she's in a coma for the rest of her life.  From the moment on
he's entwined, obsessed, with her, for the rest of his life."
   For levity, there is the relatively raw "I Can't Dance," from which
the album's title is derived.
   "It's a song very untypical of Genesis," Banks says.
   Adds Rutherford: "It was just a guitar riff played once or twice,
and we said, 'Let's try to capture that simple mood-- it'll either
work or we'll have nothing.' We put it down in about two hours."
   It's a riff that Keith Richards might covet, and all the more
surprising when one compares its gut-level simplicity to the suite
that precedes it, "Driving the Last Spike."
   Painting on such a vast canvas is what keeps Genesis vital, Banks says.
   "When we write we don't think about our audience," he says. "When
we finish, it's sort of a shock to realize that other people are now
going to hear this and judge this, and that what we've just done has
no relationship to what everyone else is doing on the radio.
   "But there's another side: A rap band today has to compete against
100 other simular bands daily. With Genesis, we still don't have much
competition in the area we're trying to work. It works quite well for
us."

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Excerpts from Genesis: A Biography, 1992

Mick Barnard was a guitarist from an Aylesbury band, Farm, who was
recommended to Genesis by David Stopps from the Friar's Club. Keen to
broaden their sound again, they took his advice and drafted Barnard
into the group. Over the two months to Christmas [1970], he started to
fit in and the music began to open up once more, so much so that they
included two new songs in their set, 'The Musical Box' and 'Twilight
Alehouse'.  However, improving though he was, it was clear that
Barnard did not have the same level of experience and musical
expertise as his new colleagues, and expertise that had grown out of
their intensive working schedule over the previous year. Though
Barnard was an able musician and might have fitted into the Genesis of
twelve months earlier, they had now reached a higher rung on the
ladder and so the rest of the group felt he was very much a temporary
member...

...Things were made easier...by the broadcast, in March 1970, of a
session that Genesis had recorded for BBC radio on 22 February, which
featured 'Shepherd', 'Pacidy', 'Let Us Now (Make Love)', 'Stagnation'
and 'Looking For Someone'.  The first three were gentle pieces,
dominated by the twelve-string sound and the use of two voices in
unison (on this occasion Gabriel and Phillips...).  [Editorial note:
Banks is also audible in The Shepherd] The other two songs were
considerably different from the final recorded versions on Trespass
and give a fascinating illustration of the steps taken between the
first two albums...

...In spite of the indifference from the record company - the only
real boost from them being the organization of another package tour
for October - Genesis continued to slog their way around the country,
playing such delightful venues as Windrush Twilight Club in Gloucester
of the Hobbit's Garden - a real sign of the times! ... They continued
to play astonishing concerts and pick up new fans along the way, but
there was the feeling of preaching to the converted at gigs, without
any sign of acheiving a significant breakthrough to a wider audience.
The future of the group was never in any question, but things had
undoubtedly gone flat and there was a growing impatience within the
ranks which sometimes blew up. Tony remembers an incident at one gig
which had been 'terrible. Mike was so pissed off he didn't want to do
an encore but I said we had to do one, just to be professional! He
threw a chair at me, but we went on. All the way back to the stage, he
kept trying to kick me over!'...

...At the time, one of Phil's favourite groups was Yes who regulary
appeared at the Marquee. During one of the shows, he was told that
their drummer, Bill Bruford, was leaving the band to go to university.
After the show he went backstage to talk to their singer, Jon
Anderson, who invited him to arrange an audition. At the same show he
ran into Tony Stratton-Smith, an old friend, and, remembering the
advert he'd just seen in Melody Maker for a Charisma group, he asked
who the band were, thinking Strat would give him the job.  On hearing
it was Genesis, Phil was impressed, since he'd seen their names
appearing with monotonous regularity in the press gig guides. Strat
informed him that if he wanted the job he'd have to auditiion as the
band were very fussy. Deciding to give it a go, Phil did not call Jon
Anderson - 'I've always wondered about that because I knew the song
backwards. I'm sure I would have got the job and ended up in Yes'....

...The 'Selling England' tour of the UK was filmed for possible cinema
release, Stratton-Smith feeling strongly that the band should be
captured on film during what was a very exciting period...the band
felt that the film was not of a high enough standard and so refused to
sanction its release. It's a great shame that the film isn't
commercially available...

...Just the simple act of shaving his head had sent the press into a
fever, Peter later giving Zig Zag a list of the possible reasons why
he had done it, which included, 'It's a cheap gimmick', 'The lice
cross from the left side to the right every evening at exactly 7 p.m.
and I can swat them more easily', 'I've got a subconscious desire to
join the Hare Krishna movement' or 'It's the result of a very nasty
shaving accident!'...

...[on the Milton Keynes reunion: ] After a couple of days' rehearsal
at Hammersmith Odeon, Phil forecast, 'It'll be chaos - Pete could only
just remember the words when he was in the band!'. As Gabriel was left
at home to pore over the lyrics, Genesis let off steam by returning to
their roots and playing an unannounced gig at London's Marquee where
the were billed as the Garden Wall....

...[Invisible Touch: ] During the writing of 'Tonight Tonight
Tonight', Phil came out with the 'monkey' phrase from the song - its
working title was 'Monkey/Zulu' - which quickly became an integral
part of the piece, leaving him to write the lyrics around it. He had
already used the 'monkey on your back' line in 'Man On The Corner', so
Phil developed the idea, giving a thread of continuity for the band's
train-spotters, the song detailing the dangers of substance
dependancy....

...A similarly off-the-cuff lyric gave the album its title too. While
working on another piece, 'The Last Domino', Mike hit on a guitar riff
and Phil began to sing 'She seems to have an invisible touch'.
Realizing they'd got a great hook, they turned the riff into a
song....

...very few other people pick up on the similarities, largely as a
result of the group being pigeonholed, but those influences are
definitely there.  For example, check the guitar riff accompanying the
verses on 'Land Of Confusion' which owes a debt to Pete Townshend,
subtly acknowledged in the lyric 'my generation will put it right',
and more obviously in the Spitting Image video used to promote the
single which includes an 'appearance' by the Who's leader....

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Chicago Tribune
June 25, 1992
Sec 1 p: 20
by Greg Kot


             COLLINS STEERS GENESIS ON A BREEZY COURSE

  Like many of their art-rock peers of the 1970s, the members of
Genesis threaten to turn into insufferable blowhards every time they
shift into one of those long instrumental zone-outs they hold dear.
   But even at its most long-winded, Genesis keeps the pyrotechnics
fairly sparse, the grandstanding to a minimum.
   For that reason, the trio's performance Wednesday in the first of
two shows at Tinley Park's World Music Theatre deserved praise for its
professionalism and restraint.
   This otherwise dour bunch, abetted by an additional guitarist and
drummer, also provide a few giggles, thanks mostly to Phil Collins,
who's not above poking fun at himself ("We're gonna take you back to
the 70's ... when some of us had hair") or inciting the audience to
join in the foolishness.
   Collins' refusal to take much of anything too seriously brough a
much-needed breeziness to Genesis' otherwise sluggish material, and
there was much of it to endure.
   For "Hold on My Heart" a typically sentimental ballad, Tony Banks'
keyboards drifted into nothingness while Collins tried to invest a
skimpy melody with some feeling.
   Long, meandering, mostly instrumental tracks such as "Domino" went
nowhere, until a platform lifted Collins into the the midst of a light
show on three hugh video screens above the stage.
   Banks' keyboards-dabbing in textures and atmospheres at the expense
of melody and rhythm-- dominated, while Mike Rutherford's guitar was
barely a factor, except on "I Can't Dance."
   Genesis social commentarties were generally well-intentioned
failures.  Few in the audience needed convincing that televangelists
are corrupt, but Collins chose to remind us one more time in "Jesus He
Knows Me."
   For "Driving the Last Spike" about the plight of British railway
workers in the late 19th Century, the audience was thrust into a PBS
documentary, complete with sepia-toned images of gaunt laborers on the
video screens.
   More successful was a brisk medley of some of the band's vintage
material, including "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" and "Follow You,
Follow Me." Here, Genesis found the taut pacing that eluded most of
the evening.

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REVIEW

Chicago Tribune
Thursday, January 21, 1993
Section 5 pg 7
by Mark Caro


GENESIS LIVE The Way We Walk, Volume Two: The Longs (Atlantic)  ** (two stars)

   Unlike the companion live singles collection, "The Shorts," this
set allows the band to stretch out and sound less like it's merely
trying to duplicate studio versions. This is good and bad news.  The
older material, Peter Gabriel era stuff already covered by this
incarnation on the live "Seconds Out," is handled in an almost
20-minute medley that makes it tempting to dub this set "The Cutoffs."
As for the newer epics, the one time band truly lights a stove under a
recorded version of "Home by the Sea," a song that successfully blends
the concise melodies of latter-day Genesis into a longer format. Other
recent longies tend to equate meandering with artsiness, and the six
minute drum duet between Phil Collins and Chester Thompson was
probably a lot more fun to watch.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chicago Tribune, Arts Section
Sunday Nov 7, 1993

Phil Collins, Regular Guy
(and like regular guys, he's worried about his kids)

By Greg Kot (Tribune Rock Critic)

NEW YORK- A taxi collects a journalist in midtown manhattan after an
interview with Phil Collins.  As if on cue, Collins' voice oozes out
of the dashboard singing the Genesis hit "Hold On My Heart."
     Much to the chagrin of rock's cool people, Collins' music has
been inescapable over the last decade.  Whether working with Genesis
or on his own, the 42-year old family man sells albums in
multiplatinum chunks by turning his guy next door image -short,
impish, balding-into a strength.  He doesn't raise a din on his rock's
cutting edge demons.  In fact, on one song, from his new album "Both
Sides" (Atlantic) due in stores Tuesday-Collins sounds like he could
be the father of Nirvana's Kurt Cobain:

     Our sons and daughters seem to be beyond our control
     their smile is fading fast and they're losing their soul.

In that song "We're Sons of Our Fathers" Collins expresses the sort of
anxiety that any parent with three children may feel.
     "This song is saying to parents, 'When did you last sit down with
your children and talk to them over dinner? When did you last know
where they went when they went out at night?  I've had that with a
21-year old and a 17-year old (from his first marriage) who for the
last 10 years I have been an on-the-phone father to.  And I don't know
where they go when they go out at night.  I'm fortunate that they have
grown up very well balanced and they're responsible kids, but it does
seem like we did have more respect in the past, not just for our
elders, but for everything."
     "In the bridge (of the song) I say that sometimes I feel like my
father.  I know sound like my dad, but it still seems me that it's a
question that should be asked.  People may listen to the song and
think 'He's not talking about us, is he?  Well when did we last talk
to our kids?'  That's the kind of reaction I'd like."
     Collins' sixth solo album is full of such introspection, a
relatively somber song cycle that works a variety of mid-life regrets.
It's his most inward-looking record since his 1981 solo debut "Face
Value" which chronicled the breakup of his first marriage.  Collins,
who has a 4 year old daughter by his second wife, Jill, is quick to
caution that the new record has nothing to do with either of his
marriages -"there's noting wrong with my marriage; my marriage is
really strong, and I have completely broken with my first wife, so
that's not part of the picture."
     "But there are other elements that I didn't foresee.  Some of the
lyrics are like ghosts that come back to haunt you, bridges that won't
burn, links with the past that you thought were the past, but they're
not...that couple with turning 40, you start to look back at that part
of your life that is now finished and another part just beginning.
I've never felt my age, but I am prepared to believe that when you get
to be about 40, something inside you happens and you start dealing
with these things."
     Collins, an accomplished drummer and serviceable keyboardist,
taught himself to play bass and guitar to complete the new album.  He
wrote, recorded, and produced it himself in the spartan confines of
his home studio in the English countryside.
     "I've got a 12-track analog tape player, a 16 track desk, a
piano, keyboards..it's like a little workshop where everything is
central, so I can operate it all myself.  It's 'make it up as you go
along' which means that you get something else out.  I did the vocals
at home because the songs are so personal I didn't really want to do
them in front of anybody else in a proper studio.  I thought I could
get a bit more heart and soul out of them that way."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 LOS ANGELES (UPI) -- Singer-songwriter Phil Collins says matter-of-
factly that his album ``Both Sides,'' in stores next week, is his best
work yet.
 If he were anything less than proud of it there is no one for Collins
to blame but himself.
 This recording is truly a home-grown solo effort -- he wrote the
music and lyrics, sang all the vocals, produced the mix, and played
all the instrumentals, even learning how to make guitar and bass
sounds with a synthesizer and to finger the melodies.
 Until now the drummer and keyboard player with Genesis has always
been what he calls ``a chord man.''
 The result, Collins said, is a collection of songs that are ``very,
very personal.'' And that makes the good reviews and positive feedback
that much more pleasurable.
 ``It means more to me when people like this (record) I think because
I feel more complete about this,'' he said in an interview in Los
Angeles. ``I feel like any pat on the back is more rewarding.
 ``At the same time, if you don't like it I can stand up and say,
'Hey, you know, that's OK. I do.' I feel very passionately that this
is the best thing I've done,'' he said.
 He said he hadn't set out to do it all himself, but it seemed like
the right thing to do once he examined the songs he was composing.
 ``When the material started surfacing, like in a darkroom as the
picture started to become a picture, it seemed to me that the songs
were very, very personal.
 ``If I sound surprised, it's because you don't really know what's
going to happen until you start doing it. You don't really know what
the song's going to be about until you start writing it,'' said
Collins, who usually composes the tune before adding the words.
 ``Then I thought, well this is so personal I don't want anybody else
on it,'' he said.
 Collins, 42, will begin a year-long worldwide tour on April 1 in
Copenhagen to promote the album.
 Then he plans to take some time off from recording to pursue acting.
Collins, who appeared most recently as the gay bath house owner in the
HBO special ``And the Band Played On,'' hopes to appear in at least
two movies before returning to music.
 As for what kinds of roles he would prefer, Collins said, ``Anything
against type, I suppose, so not a nice guy.''

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

excerpts from Phil Collins Interview part 2
Teletext UK, 14 Nov 1993

How do you feel about the new album?
        "It has one coherent mood. By the end of the writing I had 17
songs and I just threw out most of the ones that didn't fit into that
mood. In performance terms this has more heart and soul in it than
anything I've ever done. It was all made at home, me just sitting down
and singing. I was having more and more fun doing it there in a little
room of my own, I didn't want anyone to muck about with the demos."

We Wait And We Wonder is probably your most politcal song yet. Why?
        "It was inspired by the Warrington bomb, asking 'what does it
take to work this out?" It seems to me that it's not going to stop or
just go away. So how much further are we going to let it escalate? I
don't pretend to have the answers. You know when I see a mother and
children blown to bits by a bomb, I just think this is ridiculous,
this can't go on."
        "I write these songs not in a bid to change things, because I
don't really believe I can change things, but it's really just to say
'This bothers me - does it bother anybody else?' We Wait and We Wonder
is an emotional song as much as a political one. I look at it as a
simple statement from an ordinary person. An angry statement."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An extract from TODAY 29 October:

..."when an old flame walked back into rock star Phil Collins' life
she lit the embers of a romance he thought had long since died.  Even
though he is happily married to his second wife Jill, 36, the memories
tormented Collins - until this week, he publicly declared his feelings
for his secret love by dedicating a song to her on his new album Both
Sides.  The song is called "I've forgotten nothing [sic] and it's
about a love that never died".  Collins, 42, is keeping the woman's
name a secret, but he admits it is not his first wife Andrea, whom he
divorced in 1978.  His current wife, he says, understands."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14 November 1993
NY Times

A combined review of Phil Collins and Jackson Browne's new albums (JB
stuff indicated with "...").

            Two Romantics Explore Old Wounds to the Heart

...

In Phil Collins's (sic) "Both Sides," an album that, like Mr.
Browne's, consists entirely of ballads, the narrator of "Can't Turn
Back the Years" muses: "If your heart's in pieces, you look for the
truth/ And when I look deep down inside I know, it's too bad I love
you."

Both records find men in their 40's (Mr. Browne is 45, Mr. Collins 42)
taking stock of relationships and life choices in a language and a
musical vocabulary that cut against the hard-edge macho posturing of
mainstream rock.  With varying success, they seek to translate
intimate feelings into a public voice without reducing them to
greeting-card homilies.

...The feelings on Mr. Collins's record, which is the more musically
atmospheric of the two, are a bit more generalized.

Mr. Collins's album doesn't have as strong autobiographical echoes,
but its tone is unaccustomedly downhearted.  It is also the singer's
first record in which he has played all the instruments.  Made on a
12-track recording machine in his home, with embellishments added at a
larger studio, it has spare, almost pointillistic production that
conveys the sense of a man brooding alone in a darkened room.

Being primarily a drummer, Mr. Collins has always excelled at creating
musical atmospheres in which varying combinations of drums and
percussion suggest the beat of the human heart.  This aura of
palpitation lends the ballads on "Both Sides" a heightened sense of
time ticking away.

As a pop personality, Mr. Collins has always been a divided soul.  In
his two-pronged career, he has carried forward the esoteric spirit of
1970's art rock as the leader of Genesis while cultivating a more
personal pop voice as a solo performer.  This dualism goes to the core
of his music.  Mr. Collins likes to present himself as a middle-class
English bloke with a clownish streak.  And in songs like his 1989 hit,
"Another Day in Paradise," and "Both Sides of the Story," from the new
album, he plays the role of concerned citizen calling for reason and
compassion.

"Both Sides of the Story," a pop march buoyed with bagpipe-like
textures, is a sensible advice song that urges people to put
themselves in other's shoes before passing judgement on them.  "We
Wait and We Wonder," a song that reflects on the irrationality of the
terrorism plaguring England adopts the same well-meaning but stodgy
public tone.

But the bulk of the songs on "Both Sides" explore the wound of an old
love that can be neither forgotten nor rekindled.  In "Everyday" and
several other songs, Mr. Collins plays the abject romantic supplicant
to a woman - usually an old love - who holds all the cards in the
relationship.

"Just look at me here/ You've got me pleading with you," he begs in
"There's a Place for Us."  In "Can't Find My Way," he declares, "All
that I have is already yours."

Mr. Collins lacks Mr. Browne's skill at turning a poetic phrase.  But
spilling out his feelings in a voice edged with hysteria, he is not
just a pop craftsman recycling lovelorn cliche's but a human being in
pain.

With it's bare, sparkling production and anguished tone, "Both Sides,"
is the closest Mr. Collins has come to paying homage to his roots in
the Beatles and in particular to John Lennon's solo primal-scream
albums.  The record is Mr. Collins's primal yawp disguised as
contemporary pop.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Editorial preface: some of the remarks in this interview are about
what transpired during the 1993 Billboard Music Awards. After the
show, apparently people accused Phil of being a racist, and since
Arsenio's ratings were sinking at the time of this interview, he
naturally brought it up. During the awards which Phil hosted, big
efforts were made to keep the show from going over its alotted time,
since Phil mentioned that in his opening monologue: "let's not start
overrunning right away". Comedian Martin Lawrence, presenting an
award, was presumably told to speed up his presentation, which he
interpreted as whites telling blacks to hurry while whites took all
the time they wanted to -- if anything racist was said, it was by Mr.
Lawrence. Phil, after Lawrence's award presentation, said something
about "this black and white shit--" and was censored during the
remainder of his remark, which by its tone was very anit-racist. Prior
to this, Dr. Dre and Snoop Doggy Dog were inexplicably given an actual
award for something, and came to the stage with their full-blown
"gangsta" posing. Phil commented "it's getting a little dark in here"
in reference to the mood change from a fun party to a "Death Row"
gangsta invasion. Phil, as you would expect, would have no idea what
was meant by "Death Row" as Dre & Dogg's record label. Phil's remarks
were then misconstrued by others.]


                Phil Collins on The Arsenio Hall Show
                           December 9, 1993

Arsenio: One more time for Mr. Collins, that was nice stuff man.
[applause]

Phil: These guys made it very easy, [points towards band] I got to
say, these guys made it very easy for me, so thank you.

Arsenio: Also these guys, I got to give him props, these guys were
accompanied by Greg Philingaines (sp?) who is one of the best in the
business. And you've worked with him before.

Phil: ..and one of the shortest as well.

Arsenio: Oh, Greg, uh oh

Phil: He'll never talk to me again, I love him he is a good guy

Arsenio: Didn't you record most of the stuff for this CD at your
house?

Phil: I recorded everything, pretty much, except for the live drums, I
did everything at my house. I did it all myself. Played everything
myself. It was a real home movie. I loved every minute of it.

Arsenio: What was the first instrument you ever picked up?

Phil: Drums was the first thing, I didn't actually pick them up.  I've
played them since I was five years old. I never wanted to be anything
else. That was it.

Arsenio: Are you a better drummer than you are anything else?

Phil: Some would say.[pause, crowd laughs] Some would say. I think
now, I used to say I was a drummer that sings but now I think I am
much more a singer that drums. I don't play so much on tour anymore.
I play on all the records obviously. Given the opportunity I will
play, go out with Eric Clapton and play drums, or anybody that asks me
if I really respect them and love the music. But I guess I am more of
a singer and writer now.

Arsenio: When Genesis was first formed you weren't in the group how
did you eventually get involved.

Phil: I just answered and advert in the papers. In those days it was
kind of easier. There was adverts in the back of the press saying
drummer wanted. I just rang up loads of people every week just trying
to get jobs. Genesis was one of the groups that needed a drummer and I
applied and eventually got the job. It was just that way, you know,
now it's a lot harder. Video has made it a lot harder.

Arsenio: Now Peter would have been the guy to make that decision back
then.

Phil: I think had everybdoy to make the decision -Peter Gabriel, yeah.
He was the guy that rang me to tell me I got the job. But apparently
there was a split decision. Peter thought I was good, Tony thought I
was good but the other guys didn't. I got even with them over the
years.

Arsenio: I didn't get to see the Billboard awards last night, but when
I would up this morning it was the talk of all the urban radio
stations. Why don't you tell me what the atmosphere was and what was
construed as racist remarks.

Phil: Well, ok, what happened--actually the atmosphere was great It
was a great show I enjoyed it very much. This is the second year I
hosted it. But the great thing is you can go out there and say what
you feel, given the opportunity. Now my stuff was being cut down
because everyone started the acceptance speeches, they were
overunning. The host's area starts getting cut down. But what happened
was when Dr. Dre came out with Snoop Doggy Dog, it suddendly, the
emphasis changed in the room...

Arsenio: In what sense, after they talked, see I didn't see the show.

Phil: They just came up, he came up and said his acceptance speech
which could have been a lot longer and a lot more inflamatory.  But I
just, all I heard was "death-row", "security", "bluffing."  I just
said, "It suddenly got dark in here" because it was a very happy
night, you know. Good fun, it's an award show, and suddenly it got a
little chilly. And I said "It's getting dark in here" Now some people
construed that as being a racist remark. Now anybody that knows me
knows that 75-80% of my musicians that I play with are black.
Everybody knows that the music I grew up listening to, Otis Redding,
Motown, you know, there is not an ounce of racism in my body. But what
I meant was it was getting a little dark, mood, you know. A little
later Martin Lawrence came out, who I like, who is a very funny
comedian, I met him on the Letterman show. And he came out with [???]
and they were goofing about and so the guy was going [Phil does the
producer's speed it up signal] hurry up, because we were overunning.
Like within 20 minutes we were 4 minutes over. So Martin said, so now
there telling the black folk to hurry up, you should have cut out that
white crap earlier on. I just thought what are we going to DO here.
This is music, you know, there is black there is white [censored horn]
that is complete garbage. We are in this together. There is enough
stuff going without emphasizing that side of race inside music. I just
went out there and said, this black & white stuff is incredible, I
just believe this is happening. If you had the Four Tops, The
Temptations, and The Supremes on that show, there would have never
have been that atmosphere. It just that some of guys are tending to
take it as a militant politcal front. And I find that offensive.

[Note: Death Row is actually Dre & Dogg's record company]

Arsenio: Ok, um, now, you are not a big fan of rap and hip-hop, right?

Phil: It's just not meant for me. I just feel there is a lot of
problems out there on the street, which contrary to what people might
think, that I am a rich pop star, I actually do feel. As normal as I
can be I am a regular guy. I see what happening out there, and I just
see that you have two choices: You can build a big ditch between you
and the problem or the answers or you can build a bridge. I would
prefer to build a bridge. Some of these guys are digging a big ditch
and I just find that a bit negative. As if there is an army gathering
as opposed to stretching out and finding out how to make things
better.

Arsenio: What you would say to those people who are maybe watching now
that may have called a radio station and said I think Phil Collins is
a racist.  What would you say to those people if you could respond?

Phil: I would say that I've been misunderstood, misinterpreted or
misquoted.  I don't even know what went out on the air cause I haven't
even seen the show. Oh yeah, as they probably did tonight.

Arsenio: I heard the bleeped the S word. I think it was the dark thing
probably started it all.

Phil: Well, I just think, it's a very strange situation when you get
into a situation where you have people that are kind of, where the
violent ganster aspect is glamourized to the point where that adds
credos to what you're doing. I mean it's getting to the point where it
is almost farcicle (sp?) now. Where you have the guys, you know, they
ganster element, or what appears to be the ganster element, I mean I
don't know any of these guys. I just go on what I read which is what
most people might read. That is sort of glorifying the whole thing. I
mean like yeah, the guy is convicted of this convicted of that let's
buy his album. It's just seemed strange, I doesn't speak to me, it's
not meant to. I wish it did, I am trying to fix things, I am not
trying to break things.

Arsenio: Yeah, I found this quote on your CD, which I thought was kind
of interesting.

        "White man turns the corner
        "finds himself within a different world"
        "Ghetto kid grabs his shoulder"
        "Throws him up against the wall"
        "He says, 'would you respect me if I didn't have this gun"
        "cause without it, I don't get it that's why I carry one.'"

What did you want to teach your listening audience with that lyric?

Phil: Well, this is a scene, this verse that I wrote is actually based
on a scene that's in "Grand Canyon" You have a situation where an
affluent business man goes, takes the wrong turn off the freeway and
he finds himself in a world he really didn't know existed. He's only
seen this on a channel on television and he's always flipped it over
because he he doesn't like what he sees. It doesn't affect the way he
gets to work so he doens't care about. And suddenly you get a guy who
picks on him and says "hey, c'mon." What I was trying to get over with
the verse is that it has now gotten to the point where on the street
there is a lot of kids that are carrying guns not because they want
to, there is always going to be an element of the villians out there
that want to, but there is a large percentage of the kids that are now
carrying guns because this is "their American Express gold card, this
is what buys me the respect."

We should try to understand what makes them feel that way and
therefore come back and redress the balance from this side and make
their life in such a way that they don't have deal with that, to
resort to that.  And that's what they carry it because "people don't
listen to me if I don't have this, don't you understand, people don't
listen to me that's why I carry it." So that's what I am trying to
say. Of course there are the small minority out there that do because
they are troublemakers that's what they like to do. Basically, I think
a lot of kids are doing cause of peer pressure and I think we should
try and pull back and try and redress the balance from where we are.
Rather than go out and get more guns, you know, what I feel like Dr.
Dre and guys are going out and saying let's go fix this our way, and I
think we should build the bridge rather than dig a ditch.

[...next Arsenio asks about the Guns N Roses, Charles Manson song
incident, and Phil replies about how he doesn't believe in censorship
and everyone applaunds. At the end of the interview some boos can be
heard from the audience. The next day in Arsenio's monologue he says
"Hi, my name is MC just introduce myself and get your ass off the
stage."]


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                   Phil Collins On Larry King Live
                          December 13, 1993

LK: Welcome back to Larry King Live in New York.  Phil Collins
released his first solo album 12 years ago.  In that time he has
established himself as an actor and he continues as front man for the
musical group Genesis.  But, once again, Collins is going solo and
he's taking the work seriously.  In his latest release, the seven time
Grammy winner played all the instruments, wrote all the songs,
produced all the tracks.  _Both_Sides_ from Atlantic Records came out
last month and it's already gone beyond platinum.  Joining us here in
Gotham as he prepares for a nineteen ninety-fi...four solo tour is
Phil Collins.  That tour will include the United States?

PC: Oh, yes!

LK: Of course.

PC: Of course.

LK: And Great Britain.  Of course.

PC: Oh, of course.  And the rest of Europe.  And, in fact, maybe the
rest of the world.

LK: Why couldn't other people have played on the album and just sing,
Phil?

PC: [laughs]

LK: Why'd you have to do everything?

PC: [shakes head laughing] I dunno.  It seemed like a good idea at the
time.  Well, you know, I burned everything, of course, as I normally
do, and the material was proving to be very personal.  And to be
honest, I was, because of the nature of the songs I was also, apart
from that, just having a good time learning how to do other things
and, uh, always wanting to be, sort of, someone that puts little trip
wires in front of myself, I thought I'd have a go at it.

LK: How many instruments?

PC: Well the guitar and the bass were actually keyboard, you know, uh,
they were played from the keyboard with real sounds.  So really I just
played the keyboards and the drums.  But the idea is to get the
idea...the...is to make...

LK: That there's nobody else on this album, right?  But you.

PC: No.  Nobody else but me.  But if you play the guitars parts on the
keyboard, which is a sampled sounds and, uh, and bass sounds, you can
actually, if you play them like a guitar or a bass guitarist, you can
make it sound like the real thing.  I hope.  [raises eyebrows]

LK: When you say very personal, what do you mean?  All songs are
written by the person who writes them.

PC: Yes, I suppose, the kind of things you go through when you hit the
mid, early forties, you know.  Um, I suppose that's part and past of
it.  I mean you start looking back at your life and you start looking
forward, you know.  And some of the looking back involves the goals
you got, the goals you didn't get, the goals you should've had, the,
uh...

LK: There's some pain in here, then.

PC: Oh, I suppose there is, 'cos there's always the things that you,
sort of, you missed.  But there's lots of things to look forward to as
well, you know.  But it's easier to write sadder songs than it is to
write happier songs, I have noticed.

LK: Really?

PC: [nods] Yeah.  I find it so.

LK: Is that why more songs are sad than happy?

PC: I think so.  There's a human trait, I think, when, uh, when you're
a little bit miserable, you don't put on a happy song to lift you out
of it.  You tend to put on another one that take you down...[breaks
into fake sobbing] You know.  That kind of thing.

LK: For some people it's made whole careers.

PC: Yeah.  Exactly.

LK: [smiles] Okay.  But you also, don't you do a number in here not
about you or yourself but about those boys that killed someone in
England, don't you?

PC: Oh, yeah.  There's a couple of those, there's two, or actually
three songs that are about other things, as it were, other than love
and life and, uh, and one of them is called "Sons of Our Fathers,"
which was, yeah, it stemmed from that incident.  Um, and it started,
because in England when that happened, I mean, because it's a smaller
country, the shockwaves are felt, um, a lot farther, you know, and,
uh, they were starting to run articles about the youth and how young
the young offenders were.  And it just seemed to me that, looking at
all this, uh, news coverage, we just seemed to have, um...A lot of the
kids today I think tend not to get the guidance that they had when I
was a kid, you know, from the parents.  And I think that's video,
gameboys, and stuff like that.  There's lots of reasons for that.  But
I think maybe if they don't get any guidance then possibly they're
going out on the street because they're getting a lot older younger,
but without the guidance and the slight pointing in the right
direction.

LK: They're getting older younger and not ready for it.

PC: Probably.  Yeah.

LK: Another one, I think the single is "Both Sides of the Story,"
right?  That's the one they've made the single out of the album.

PC: The first one.  Yeah.  [nods]

LK: How do you choose, or does the purchaser choose, in a sense, what
is a hit song out of an album?

PC: I think it used to be, uh, radio used to choose it for you because
they used to listen to an album and they used to play...the bias on
one track went, um, that way, and the record company put it out as a
single.  With this particular record, I mean, I...I deliberately
wanted that song out as a single not because of necessarily what it
said lyrically, although it's, I mean I'm pretty behind what it said
lyrically, but, uh, just as a piece of music it was a lot more
aggressive than people were, I think people were gonna expect from me.

LK: What lyrically is it saying?

PC: Um, well it's just, it seems that we're on the edge, you know.
Uh, a lot of people are on the edge out there and I just feel that,
that we should...It would be nice, wouldn't it, if we tried to, to
actually hear the other person's point of view and realize that people
have another point of view.  Have a, you know, an alternative opinion
to yours.  And I, in the song, I give like four different verses.
Four different movies, if you like, about how this should happen.

LK: Walking in someone else's shoes.  Seeing the other side.

PC: Yeah.  I mean there's, uh, I mean the most potent verse to me is
the verse with, which is based on the scene from "Grand Canyon."  The
film where the, uh, the affluent white businessman turns off the
freeway and gets lost suddenly in a war zone of a place that he didn't
even know existed.  Just seen it on...on CNN, in fact.  And, uh, you
know it's on the news clips and [imitating the businessman], "God,
where am I?"  And then suddenly two or three guys or maybe one guy
come up and say [points imaginary gun at Larry King] "Okay, come on,
you know.  You're in my part of the world now.  Come on.  Let me see
what you got."  And the guy says, you know, "Waitamminit,
waitaminnit."  And, uh, basically it just seems that there are a lot
of kids in that situation where, because of peer pressure or the
situation that we have made for them, that, um, this [holds up "gun"]
has become their American Express, you know.  Their kind of, their
calling card.  And this gets them the respect.  This gets people to
listen to them.  Whereas I think, what I'm trying to say is that if we
saw why that kid takes up the gun and maybe we would change the way we
have created that environment for them.

LK: Do you tour a lot or not a lot?

PC: A lot.  When we tour we tour a lot.  You know.

LK: This is Genesis, right?

PC: Well, Genesis, uh, we've done a lot of touring over the 23 years
I've been with the band, but I mean, um, on my own I'm going out next
year and that will be a sort of six, seven, eight month tour.  With
some gaps, of course, otherwise you drive yourself crazy.

LK:  And how about if a movie role comes in between?

PC: Oh, in between time is not so easy, depending on the length of the
gap.  You know.

LK: Still, singing is your thing, right?

PC: Yeah.

LK: Singing and writing.

PC: Singing and writing.  But I desperately want to do more acting
and, uh, you know I intend to do that.  But it'll be the year after
next.

LK: We'll take a break and come back and go to your phone calls.  Phil
Collins's new solo album is _Both_Sides_ from Atlantic Records.  It's
gone through the roof...[going on about future guests]...This is Larry
King live.  We'll be back with your phone calls for Phil Collins after
this.  Don't go away.

[fade to video clip of "Both Sides of the Story" and commercials]

LK: Welcome back to Larry King Live in New York...[goes on about
future guests]...The guest now is Phil Collins, the album is
_Both_Sides_, the caller is from Columbia, Missouri.  Hello.

C: Hi.  Um, Phil, I've been a big fan of yours for a long time.

PC: Yes...

C: I really like this new album.  I wanna know how you feel about some
of the lack of artistic respect that you've gotten in the past from
some of your critics who have labelled your music as sort of
run-of-the-mill, over-commercialized pop.  And is this new album sort
of a reaction against that image of your music.

PC: [he has been smiling and nodding knowingly as the caller was
speaking] Well, I'm always trying to rattle my cage, uh, a little bit.
Um, I...I...The critical abuse kind of used to bother me more than it
does now, actually.  I mean, uh, I just...I'd like to think I'd like
to...I could get reassessed, you know.  Um, but I think probably it's
too late for that.  So, um, I think I'm doomed to a life of just, sort
of, people buying the records but the critics hating me.  Which is...
[shrugs just as LK interrupts]

LK: You know you're doomed to a life of commercial success.

PC: Yeah, I guess that's...

LK: Why do the critics hate you?

PC: Well, uh, I don't know.  I think, uh, it tends to be because
they...they tend to sort of assume that...that if you have a lot of
success, which I've fortunately had, that you're, you know, you've got
the lowest common denominator and you're...you're changing your
musical, um, musical output to sort of...

LK: [interrupting:] In your own heart have you ever copped out for
commerciality?

PC: No.  Absolutely not.  I mean, it's not even in my dictionary.
But, um, I just think I'm not hip enough, that's all.  You know.  Who
cares?  [looks at camera, looks away]

LK: Houston, Texas.  Hello.

C: Yes.  This is Mike from Houston and, uh, I think your music's
excellent.  You don't have anything to apologize for.  [PC and LK both
smile] I saw you on Arsenio the other night, though, and I'm just
curious if you think your comments about building bridges with your
music fell upon deaf ears.  That was the impression I got.

PC: [smiles] Yeah.

LK: Why?

PC: Um, well, Arsenio, you know, I mean he gave me a great platform,
especially being, um, a black, uh, black chat show host.  I mean I
felt that we did actually discuss the things that I really wanted to
talk about and I felt were important enough to talk about.  But, um, I
felt he was a bit non-committal.  You know, he could've actually said
yes I agree or no I don't...

LK:  What were you saying?

PC: Well, you see, I did...Previous night I'd hosted the Billboard
Awards and, um, and in that, um, program, Dr. Dre and Snoop Doggy Dog
who, you know, been a very vast amount of records sold this year and
also this sort of a slightly dark - mood-wise, I hasten to add - um,
just sort of came across the evening and, um, dark atmosphere.  And I
happened to mention it, 'cos I was the host and I could say what I
want, you know.  And I said, the, well, it's started to get dark in
here, and everybody being very sensitive nowadays, and it shows what,
how many people are on the edge, came out and said that was a very
racist comment and I, I mean, I just didn't mean it like that.
[shrugs and holds out his hands] You know, I just meant that the
atmosphere suddenly went "Oh, God, this is heavy."

LK: So you explained that to Arsenio?

PC: [nods] So I explained it and...

LK: You don't think he bought it?

PC: Oh, I think he bought it.  I just don't think he could be seen to
be buying it.

LK: Pittsburgh.  Hello.

C: Hi.  Phil, I'm also a long-time fan and I did catch the Billboard
Awards and Arsenio and there's a lot of music out there that is very
violent, very...that can be seen as racist.  Do feel that this is
going to continue to be a trend or are we going to move away from
this?

PC: Well, I've gotta say that, I mean, something I didn't say on the
Arsenio Hall Show was actually, I think there's a lot of good rap, you
know.  I mean, I...He asked me if I...He said to me, "You don't like
rap, do you?" and I kind of said no I don't 'cos most of it doesn't
speak to me.  But there's an awful lot of rap and dance music out
there that I kind of, especially the dance stuff, you know, that I do
like 'cos it's groove-orientated and I'm a drummer.  But, um, I find
there's more than...more than the fair share of really negative
militant rap and I think that is having a negative effect on the young
kids, uh, because they believe it.  And even one of the rappers the
next night, you know, he was being very articulate and then, then,
turned around and said, "Yeah, but the police, man, the police don't
know what they're talking about, you know.  I've got no respect for
them."  And kids all over the country are listening to this, you know,
and I just think that there's a bit too much of that.  Um, I think
it's gonna go over the edge and it's gonna come back.  It's
inevitable.  Things like that do, you know.

LK: Richmond, Virginia.  Last call for Phil Collins, and then Naomi
Judd.  Hello.

C: Hi, Phil, this is Pat.

PC: Hi.

C: I've heard that Daryl and Chester won't return with you next year
and I was wondering just what musicians are going to be in your band.

PC: Well, Daryl will be touring.  I mean, we had...I had to make some
changes just because I like, I like to keep things a little bit fresh,
a little bit different around me, so, uh, I have a different rhythm
section.  Nathan East is playing bass and, uh, Ricky Lawson's gonna be
playing drums [please excuse any misspellings on my part].  I've got
Steve Foreman playing percussion.  I've got a new horn section, the
Vine Street [?] Horns...

LK: When does that tour start?

PC: That's, uh, April 1st in Europe.  Uh, Daryl's gonna be with us,
though, and so is Brad Cole and I have, Anna [?] McCullough and Amy
Keys, I got...It's about a twelve-pieve band.  But it's, uh, some
fresh faces, new faces, which is always good.

LK: Continued good luck, Phil.  [they shake hands]

PC: Very nice to...

LK: Finally good meeting you.

PC: [smiles] Yes!

LK: Every time he's been with us, it's been satellite.  Phil Collins.
_Both_Sides_ is the album.  It's gone beyond platinum.  [goes on about
Naomi Judd]


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