by Debra L. Wentorf.
To my dear fellow Paperlaters:
Your perseverence has paid off. I just got off the phone with Carol at Hit & Run about ten minutes ago...she rang me up around 11 and she and I chatted for a little over 20 minutes. =) Anyway, the first thing she told me was that Tony had indeed looked over the interview transcript, and said it was okay.
So, my fellow Paperlaters, you know what that means, don't you? The long wait is over. I can indeed promise you those tasty Tony tidbits to further fill out your plates on Turkey Day.
[ ... ] I decided to post the interview as I transcribed it, that is, verbatim from Tony's and my conversation. However, Tony does have a distinctive sort of "stop and start" manner of speaking, for those of you who find it particularly difficult to follow BankSpeak, as I like to call it, I do have a more "cleaned up" version that assembles Tony's phrases into more coherent sentences.
As a final note, I did try to proofread this as closely as possible, but of course any typos are mine. I think you'll get the general idea despite them.
Happy reading -- with a slice of turkey and some extra stuffing on the side! I'm truly thrilled to present this to all of you -- finally!! -- and share the wealth of my excitement, so to speak.
All the best,
Deb
'Sybil, Spiders, and Other Strictly InConceivable Topics of Conversation'
- From blueberry pie to boxed sets, Deb Wentorf talks to Tony Banks about his latest solo effort, Strictly Inc.
© 1995 Deb Wentorf: Please do not reproduce any portion of this material in printed/published format, or quote herefrom, without the author's express written or verbal permission.
[It's Sunday, October 8, a cold, clear day in the Northeast US. Tony's supposed to call at 2:00...by 1:30, I make sure the husband's outside working, and that the washer, dryer, and dishwasher are all turned off. Can't have any distractions, you know! I've got my questions stacked neatly by the phone, the tape in the phone answering machine, a glass of water nearby in case my mouth turns to cotton. All seems in readiness when, at exactly 1:59, down the road comes my tenant with the rent check. I run out on the porch, and have no sooner taken the check from her hand than I hear the phone ring inside. I just have time to blurt, "Thanks alot! I gotta get the phone!" I dash back inside; it's exactly 2:00 on the dot. I take a deep breath and try to collect my wits as I sit down in the chair, press the "Phone Rec" button on the answering machine, lift the handset, and calmly say....]
Deb: Hello?
Tony: Hello, is that Deb?
Deb: Yes, hi!
Tony: Well, this is Tony Banks here...
Deb: How are you?
Tony: I'm very well, thank you.
Deb: Thanks so much for calling...I've really been looking forward to having this opportunity.
Tony: That's alright...
Deb: I guess before I really sort of get going here, I just want to tell you that I am taping this, and (Tony: That's fine...) and once I transcribe it I'll send a copy over to you and Carol to look over, if that's okay.
Tony: Okay, that's fine, yeah.
Deb: Okay, and also I'd like to post it to Paperlate, which is a Genesis electronic mailing list on the Internet.
Tony: That's alright, that's fine....
Deb: Okay, I guess since I have all that out of the way, let me just say, first of all, a very big congratulations on Strictly Inc.
Tony: Thanks a lot!
Deb: I've been listening to it for a couple weeks now, and it seems like I like it a little bit more every time I listen to it...it's really, really good.
Tony: That's great, that's really good...
Deb: I think people's first question, though, was why did you release it under the Strictly Inc. name and not as another Tony Banks album?
Tony: Well, it was sort of like a...an attempt to sort of just to make it just a little bit different, I suppose in some ways. I mean, the...firstly, it's got the one singer all the way through with Jack Hues, you know, and I think when you use a singer -- one singer -- particularly, it kind of gives such a definite identity to the record, that I thought that it'd, you know, be kind of a joint thing anyhow...Jack and I...and rather than just calling it "Jack Hues and Tony Banks" it would have been nice to give it a band name (Me: Okay) and see how that went. Um, you know, I'm not sure it's really worked, to be honest. And...but I mean, you know, obviously we know with Mike and the Mechanics it's worked, that's worked really well for him, and itŐs sort of something I...you know, I've toyed with it before with Bankstatement and I just thought I'd try it again, you know.
Deb: Actually, I suppose by your *not* putting the name on the CD, you're sort of in keeping with that whole "incognito" theme...
Tony: Well, that was part of it. But the other thing is, I mean, I have to be honest that sort of particularly in England, you know....well, everywhere, really, I felt that my own name on an album hasn't really exactly...you know...been a selling point, and to some extent I was hoping that maybe one or two people would hear it before they knew who it was, you know, particularly with a single, and then maybe they'd respond to it differently...and I think it worked in one or two cases, that, but the trouble is you also lose out, perhaps, on the people who would listen to it...because it's me, you know? So, you - you kind of...you win a bit, you lose a bit, and I think overall we lost rather more than we gained, you know....
Deb: Well, I don't really know, because I know that in talking back and forth with people on this mailing list, you know, once the word got out that this album was on its way, once it was released in the UK, people have been phoning up ordering it....
Tony: Well, I know, well, the problem is...the trouble is, though, it's just that , you know, the problem we had is that a lot of people who might otherwise know about it...people who were a little more *casual* about it, if you like, you know, who are on to these kind of things....have definitely had a bit of trouble knowing whether it's out or not. I mean, I've had to tell people who normally would go out and buy anything I do....actually tell them it's out, you know? And I mean, in all honesty, you know, the thing has come out in England and it hasn't made the Top 200, so, you know, you don't have to sell that many copies to get in an Number 200, I promise you...(we both laugh)...you know, it's all sort of about 50 copies or something (me: Wow...) So it really is...it, it, you know, it just hasn't...it didn't work, is the honest truth in that, really. So, 'cause even with the last album, you know, it did a lot better than that (Me: Oh...) But, you know, I'm thinking of, I mean, we're gonna put out a second single....and I think when we do that we're also going to put....we're gonna on the cover of the album (laughs)-- which will be terrible for these people who feel they have to have everything, I know -- but we're actually gonna put our names on the front of the album, you know (Me; Oh...!)....kind of in the sort of type and everything, and so slightly change the...the sort of, um...the image of it a bit, I think.
Deb: Oh, that's interesting....(Tony: Mmmm) So what's the second single gonna be?
Tony: Second single's gonna be "Walls of Sound." (Me; Oh, *great*...) It could be...we're not absolutely sure whether that we're, uh...it's possibly a remix, or it's possibly the version that's there...we might edit it down a bit, but we're not quite sure yet. There's a possibility of a remix, but I'm not to sure about it, myself....I think it's...I don't really want to remix it, actually, but...(laughs lightly) We shall see...
Deb: No, I actually really like that song a lot (Tony: Right) and I was sort of hoping that you'd make a single of it...
Tony: Well, I mean, I'll be honest, when we put the...first made the record, I - I was....I mean, I thought "Only Seventeen" should be the first single, so I'm, I'm...you know, it's the first time in fact we've ever released a single of my choice, so (laughs) it didn't work, but there you go. My second choice for it, though, was always "Walls of Sound," but I had trouble initially with, um, convincing people 'cause I felt "Oh, it's a ballad and everything" When I said, you know, I see that sort of Mike's done so well with things like, you know, "Another Cup of Coffee" and stuff over here and things, and I just feel those kind of songs...you know, I think people *can* like them....outside just the obvious people, you know, outside the obvious Genesis fans and things...I think it can be...it can be liked and I really feel strongly about this song, it's one of my own favorites, and so I'm really pleased with going with it now, because the record company's quite enthusiastic.
Deb: Yeah, I actually thought it was sort of ironic in that you would write a song like that, and this is coming from a guy who never thought he was very good at writing sort of love songs, you know...
Tony: Well, I like writing sort of...and I've written a few over the years, you know, obviously when...um...I mean, obviously "Many Too Many" I suppose was the first one I sort of wrote really, apart from one or two in the very early days, and then later on with....and on the last record, the last...on Still, there was the song "Still It Takes Me by Surprise" (Me: Oh, yeah...) And I thought, you know, I quite...I mean, I like writing a lot of songs if I can sort of get a kind of...just an idea to write about. I'm not very good at just writing sort of um, you know, just what you might call very straightforward kind of thing...I have to have a kind of angle, you know (laughs lightly) and this one, I just sort of the...it just seemed to work, really. I mean, I think the chorus -- and I wasn't too sure about whether it was too simple to begin with, and then I sort of felt it worked, you know (Me; Mmmhmm) ...the "I see you" bit and everything, and um, once I got that kind of bit going, the rest of it sort of seemed to slip into place.
Deb: Actually, the song reminds me a lot of 10CC's "I'm Not in Love"....
Tony: Well, I mean, I suppose there's a kind of history of those certain kinds of songs....I mean, that's another song I love, you know, and I've probably more directly been influenced in recent years more by...there was a Crowded House song on their last album called "Private Universe" which I liked, where they had the combination of what you might call a sort of softish rhythm, with a fairly sort of...well, it was essentially a ballad, I suppose, but it kind of made it sound rather different and I quite liked the effect, you know? And um...so that's what set me thinking about this...I just set up on the drum machine, I just up a sort of softish, little drum pattern and then wrote a kind of what was essentially a ballad on top of it, and I was quite...obviously I was pleased with the result, you know...it just took me a slightly different direction from what I've done before, I thought.
Deb: Yeah. Oh no, it's really nice, I like it a lot. Um, actually, I found a number of sort of ironies and interesting little twists and turns on the album that I liked quite a lot, and I guess the first one was...just as ironic as it was that you wrote this really beautiful love song, that you open the album with this great sort of danceable number, and again this is coming from a guy who a couple of years ago said, you know, told the world "I Can't Dance"...you know, so...'cause the minute that I first heard "Don't Turn Your Back on Me," I thought "This is a *great* really sort of dance tune..."
Tony: (he clears his throat) Well, I don't know, I mean, I just sort of...you know I have a sort of thing about these what I call these "heavy reggae" sort of numbers, you know....in the sense that I did it with the song "This is Love" on The Fugitive, you know, where I kept this sort of tempo going all the way through. You know, it keeps a heavy sort of drum beat, but having this sort of what you might call the standard "reggae" sort of off-beat thing going, but that...takes away from that. I don't know, I just, um...so in the sense it's almost the simplest song on the album because there's a little sort of...there's the same thing that goes the whole way through the whole song, this little sort of "de-de" thing that goes through it...(Me: Right...) and um, I don't know...I just sort of, I thought it was...what can I say, it was an idea and I sort of developed it and tried to keep it very simple, really. And um, I think, you know...again, I was pleased with the way it turned out. The verse...I particularly like the verse, really...I think the verse works rather better than the chorus, as it happens, but...but you know, it was sort of a fun lyric and um, something to open the album that kind of just, you know, that I thought was arresting, you know, but um....That was a possibility...that was the other choice for a second single, but I've never been too sure about it as a single, myself. I think it works as a good opener but, that...that's probably its place.
Deb: Yeah. Now, um, just sort of getting back to Jack Hues here for a minute. I guess you chose to work with him because you had heard a solo album of his, and you just liked this voice, and decided to ring him up, or...?
Tony: Well, pretty much, yes, I mean, Nick Davis, you know, obviously who produced...co-produced...this and also did We Can't Dance, you know...he kind of had done an album with Jack a sort of year or two ago, which was a solo record which had never got released, and he just...when we were thinking about possible singers for this record, he said he was someone he would think was worth me listening to, you know? (Me: Mmmhmmm...) And I listened to him and I thought he sounded really good, and I listened to a few other people as well, you know, just to sort of come from other ideas, and in the end we got half a dozen people down to the studio, and I sort of auditioned them. I kind of put them through...a pretty kind of um...pretty much an ordeal, I think. I made them sort of...I had no lyrics written and I just made them sort of go "na-na-na" on sort of the melodies that I'd written, and um, did about a half dozen songs with each of them, and I think some of them (laughs)...Some of them I found it very difficult, actually, I have to be honest (I laugh) But Jack, I mean, had no problem, and I just , I really liked the way his voice sounded on the songs, and I liked the kind of little...sort of little "twists" he did to his voice, you know, the idiosyncrasies, if you like. (Me: Right...) And so often in the past, I've had, you know, I've had to kind of...stop people doing some of the things that come naturally to them. With Jack, it was sort of more the opposite, really...I was trying to encourage him to do more and more of those things...I think particularly on the opening track....you get those little...slightly hysterical quality he gets at times, you know, sort of, um....he just sounds like he's gone a bit out of control, and I really like that effect (Me: Yeah...) Plus he has the sort of voice that I - I suppose I'm used to working with in the sense of with Peter and Phil and everyone...um, where when they sing at a certain sort of pitch, they kind of...a "edge" gets into their voice, you know (Me; Right...) It means you've got something to aim at....so the loud bits and the hard bits, you've got a sort of um, something you can build towards. And I kind of really need that, 'cause a lot of singers nowadays have that very sort of full tone, that...where they never sort of, the voice never really gets that aggressive quality, you know (Me: Right...) They might have a pretty voice, but without that aggression. (Me: Right...)
Deb: Actually, I found his voice really similar to yours...
Tony: Yes, I think it...I think in some ways it is. Um, it's just a little better. He's got a little more control over it and he can get a lot more range and he can do a lot more with it, you know. With me, um, it's a real struggle to get it to sound even like it does on the records, you know, 'cause I have....I have quite a lot of trouble pitching and all the rest of it (Me: Mmmhmm) and with him, of course, it's sort of like...he has no problem, you know, you can get it in one take, really, and so therefore you have much more choice or variety and things you can try, and...I think generally just get a much higher standard. But it's probably the reason why it...why it works, I think, is because he does sound...he...definitely the same area of vocal as me, you know.
Deb: Right, I was gonna say that that actually really must have helped you when you were working on these songs...because I mean, if you, you know, wrote the original lyrics or something with your own voice in mind, it was probably pretty easy to go...you know, from having your voice in mind to his?
Tony: Well, that's right. I mean, I...there was no real struggle. I mean, when we did the auditions with the original people, you know, there were a couple of songs that sounded good with, with one or two of the other vocalists, you know (Me: Mmmhmm), but there was only one guy who sounded good all the way through, and that was Jack. (Me: Mmmhmm) And, um, I think that's probably the reason why, you know, and also once I knew his voice was on it, you know, obviously a few things that you kind of modify slightly and with the lyric...once you've got the voice in mind, you know, some of the lyrics are much easier to write in that situation. I didn't really have to worry too much about it, because his voice kind of...you know, when he was....his high...his *range* is much the same as mine, and in the same point where his voice kind of breaks, you know (Me: Right...) is much the same as mine as well. So, it...it was very easy, that. I mean, you know, some of the people I've worked with in the past...you know, that's not been the case. I've been trying to push them too high or I've been trying to do funny things with their voices, which doesn't work. Or some people who...I've had some people where their voice...they can sing so high...I worked with a guy, Jim Diamond, who I worked with on...(Me; Oh, right...) ...um, a while ago....I mean, his voice is so *high*...(laughs lightly) I mean, it was a great voice, but I mean, I realized as soon he was singing an existing melody and I had to completely change it really, in order to make it sound right for his voice, 'cause he could hit notes that I wouldn't *dream* of hitting, you know. (Me: Yeah...) So, um, it was that sort of it was very easy.
Deb: And I guess, sort of the opposite end of the scale, you have somebody like Fish who actually has a very deep voice.
Tony: Yes, I mean Fish is a different kind of singer, really. I mean, the thing about Jack...he's...sort of like...in certain ways he's like someone like Nik Kershaw or someone. These people kind of can sing anything (Me; Mmmhmm)...I mean, you could play them a melody and they could sing it, you know, no problem, really...no notes and then they could sort of do funny things with it and all the rest of it. Particularly someone like Nik Kershaw, who I think is brilliant sort of like musician that you can sort of do anything with his voice, really, in terms of getting the notes, and sort of harmonizing and all the rest of it. Someone like Fish...it's a different way of working...you have to very much...kind of um, sort of see what he...what comes, comes to him naturally...(Me: Right...) He's not...he doesn't...he's not....um, can't read written music or anything like that, so you have to very much sort of see what comes naturally and then sort of modify that, which is what I did when, particularly with um, you know, "Another Murder of A Day" and things, where it kind of took what he did and then sort of like embellished it a bit. Because, it - it was quite difficult for him to sing a written melody...it's just something that doesn't come naturally to him. (Me: Right...)
Deb: Actually, just getting back to Jack for a minute here, you've got him listed as the only person that's singing on the album. But I could swear there are some places where you are singing...is that not true?
Tony: Nope, I don't sing a note on this album. (Me: Really?!) Absolutely not a note. (Me: Oh, that's amazing.) So there you go, you see? (he laughs)
Deb: That's totally amazing, because especially the spoken bit in the middle of "Only Seventeen"...?
Tony: No, that - that's him as well. We sort of slowed it down...I mean, there's a couple of funny effects on it, you know, but um, but no, that's all...that's him.
Deb: Wow...(laughing)
Tony: It's just...it's so, it's like with Phil and the group and everything, it's so much quicker if you do it with a person who can sing in tune all the time than it is to sort of keep bringing in people who struggle, you know....It's, it's...in a sense, it's lazy I suppose, but it's also, you know, if it's working, you just...there's no reason to fight it.
Deb: Well, it must work really well, 'cause it obviously fooled me. (laughing)
Tony: Yes, right, well I think...I'm not surprised in a way, because I think there's enough similarity in the voices, you know, for that to...for people to - to think that, you know.
Deb: Yeah...yeah, it worked really well. Now, I know that he also wrote a couple of lyrics to some of the songs. (Tony: That's right...) Had he...had he sort of wanted to do that from the very beginning, or...?
Tony: Um, he didn't particularly, but I mean, I think anyone who, when they're singing, they like to...I think it's good to do that. And I had a couple of songs where I didn't have much for an idea as to what I would have wanted, you know, I had no ideas for it, and...um, he originally first of all wrote the lyrics to "A Piece of You." And I - I really liked...you know, I liked the lyric, and I liked the way he sang his own lyrics (Me: Mmmhmm...) I mean, singers always tend to...have a way of singing their own lyrics that is really nice...um, you know obviously, with everybody I've worked with over the years, and I just sort of, um, I like people to do that. I don't feel quite so strongly about lyric-writing as I do about music writing, so I'm always happy to have other people, you know, to contribute, really, and I quite like what that does. (Me: Mmmhmm...) I'm very...I'm very sort of, um, easy to please with lyrics, actually...I'm so happy to hear someone else's lyric on a thing...that means I haven't got to write it, you know... (he spoke even faster here as he made this little joke, and I could hear the teasing in his voice, and so I couldn't help but laugh) But I automatically like it, I think...and um, you know, I thought what he did on it was really good, so then after that, I got into writing the lyrics for the "Strictly Incognito" track as well...um, 'cause I don't know, well, I'd had a couple of ideas for that...I thought it'd be really nice if he did another one (Me: Mmmhmmm...) you know, so that was um...so he took that one over and I thought he -he , you know, again, he did a really good job on that.
Deb: Yeah, that was, that was really a fun song. I think I read somewhere that he based the lyrics on an actual incident?
Tony: Well, it's supposed to be a true story... um, well, it was reported in an English newspaper, so, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean it's true, but...it's supposed to be something that happened I think in California, you know...about a girl with multiple personality (Me: Mmmhmm...) disorder or something...and...and actually, this guy got convicted for having sex with an underage girl even though the girl (laughing lightly)...wasn't underage at the time (Me: Okay...) It seems...it's very, sort of...it seems almost too...too...too...sort of good to be true, really, but anyhow, it made a good song.(Me: Oh, yeah....)
And the intro, it kind of, um, it suggests (laughing lightly)...you know...it's the sort of, uh...the possibility of it which is, which is funny, really...and I think he got a nice sort of light touch on the lyric, you know...
Deb: Oh yeah...I was gonna say it's both sort of humorous and tragic, I guess.
Tony: Well, it is, really, yeah, and it's um...you know, I suppose 'cause the music has stuff a little, too...I mean, the music has some melodrama to it, particularly on the intro and the bits that occur throughout it, you know, and sort of I think (Me: You...) ...I sort of built off that...
Deb: You just took the words right out of my mouth, 'cause I was gonna say I love how you threw in those sort of little melodramatic riffs in there...it sort of like gives it a James Bond sort of feel.
Tony: Well, right, but I mean, that in fact was there sort of before the lyrics were written, so he kind of fed off that, if you like, which I think was sort of quite nice...you know (Me: Yeah...) so, um... I let it go...
Deb: Oh, it was great. (laughing) I also have to tell you...when I first listened to that song, I was wondering if you guys, like, didn't write the lyrics like during a late night or something, because there are all these food lyrics...I was like "Gee, you must have been hungry...(laughing) ...you know..."
Tony: Well, the food thing was quite...the thing about it, I mean, you're trying write something, you're trying to set a sort of an American atmosphere, you know (Me: Uh huh)...and you're an English person, there are certain things that sort of, um....blueberry pie, for example, is something that an English person would never have eaten, you know, ever...(Me, in total disbelief: Really?!) No, right (he laughs)...so it automatically conjures up, for English people who've been there, it conjures up sort of American...sort of restaurants and fast food places and everything, you know, so that ...I think there's sort of the use of blueberry pie, I think, was quite sort of funny. And she was a restaurant...uh, she was a waitress anyhow, so (Me: Right...) it's sort of logical that she should be sort of, you know, related to food.
Deb: No, but I mean, there was also the whole thing about him driving an ice cream truck...
Tony: Well, that's right, yes....well, that's pure invention....I think...I don't really know why...why he chose that (laughing) you know...I guess because it scanned, you know....."Dan" and "van", you know...so it was sort of simple....
Deb: In fact, it was so bad that (laughing) the minute he said "ice cream", you know, like, in the next couple of lines where he's talking about Club Alamo (Tony: (and I can practically hear him grinning) Yes....) I thought he said "Club a la mode"....?
Tony: Oh, right, yes... (we both laugh)
Well, yes, I mean, you know....it's words...I think sometimes proper names....American songs, you know, ever since sort of things like "Route 67" [I'm sure he probably meant "Route 66" but I could swear he said "Route 67"...which is ironic, as I *live* on a Route 67!] they've always been very fond of using proper names and things in lyrics and stuff, which is something that's much less done in England, I think...and again, that sort of adds a touch of...touch of that American feel to it, I think, by using all these sort of words, you know. (Me: Yeah, that was great.) Um, and place names where people are born and things....
Deb: On a completely different note, you close the album with what I think is a completely incredible piece, called "An Island in the Darkness," (Tony: Right...) and I think it's that sort of more classical piano playing that your fans would really love to hear you do more of. Would you ever consider doing an entirely instrumental album?
Tony: Well, I have considered it, purely because I've got so much stuff around, you know. I always hope that I'm gonna do a film or something, and they never seem to turn up, so I kind of...I've got an accumulation of all these bits and pieces, you know. But "An Island in the Darkness" itself was actually...a lot of it...when I was writing the record, I mean I'm obviously improvising a lot of the time, and to get ideas and stuff, and there were sort of three or four bits I had that...which were sort of...pretty much improvised and I thought sounded really good as they were, and so I sort of, obviously, corrected them a bit and things, and then just played them. So what we've got is the intro, and then there's a kind of piano bit in the middle....(Me: Mmmhmm...) and also the first instrumental loud section....were all pretty much kind of...I mean, I say they were improvised, you know...some of those...some of them were pretty much, particularly the piano bit in the middle, the soft bit in the middle, was pretty much as it was written. (Me: Mmmhmm) The other two bits were sort of modified a bit, but there the sort of idea was there. And I just sort of arranged them...and I wanted to, kind of...I felt...I - I...as you say, I mean, I haven't really used a song for a long time really, ever since, probably since I've been working with computers....where I've actually used, you know, just "real playing"...that kind of thing...and I think a lot of that I put down to the fact that the new sort of computer system I'm using...you know, it's capable of running with real time...not - not tape, but you know, with um... disc, hard-disc recordings. (Me: Right...) And the ability to do that certainly opened it up completely, you know, because you could, you can - you can still use a computer but you could actually use a piano track as the basis rather than trying to use sort of drum machines and stuff. And it kind of, uh...it led me completely new directions, and I just uh...I'd kind of wanted to do a song like this for quite a while, you know, just 'cause I mean, I obviously like the long things and it's sort of...it's fun to do...and I had this little theme...um, which is sort of which it would sound....I thought would sound, I mean it was a soft theme when I wrote it, but I thought it would also sound really good loud....(Me: Mmmhmm)...and I suppose echoing the old "Firth of Fifth" kind of theme, which is a similar thing I felt about, and...I just thought, "Well, you know, I'll use that and kind of build the song around that..." and um...so that's what happened, really....I mean, it ended up being very long but I mean it wasn't originally intended to be quite as long. I mean, it could have been longer, obviously, I cut lots of bits out...(laughs) (Me: Yeah...) I tend to get carried away with these things, but you know, it was...I - I mean, I'm obviously really pleased the way it turned out because it's a long song in a totally different kind of degree, to things like "Another Murder of a Day," which is very much a suite of three pieces (Me: Mmmhmm...) This is - this is a genuine long song...it kind of goes through lots of bits which only happen once, and very...you know, big mood atmosphere and big build and all the rest of it....(Me: Yeah...) And um, a chance just to play sort of real piano, really, which I sort of haven't done probably since "A Curious Feeling" in that kind of way....and I really, you know, I was very pleased with it really, I suppose... The trouble is that, you know, people don't....(laughs lightly) ...it's very difficult for those kinds of pieces because you'll never get it played on the radio...and every time I do an interview with someone who isn't sympathetic, you know (now it's my turn to laugh a little), like a standard radio person, they say "Well, what the hell'd you want to do that for (I giggle again) because it's so un-1990s" you know? (Me: Yeah...) But I mean, what can you say, I just say "Well, that's what I do, you know, I mean I can't help it if I'm not sort of like contemporary, you know, I do it..." But then you have the other problem, of course, because it's sort of right at the end of the album, and a lot of people who perhaps might like it who keep saying "Well, why don't you do things like you did back in 1973" or something....um, they never get to hear it, you know (Me: Right...) But uh, you know, if...I have to say to anybody who's sort of reading, you know...or listening...or whatever...um, but that, you know, I mean, that if they really do want those days of "Firth of Fifth" and uh, you know, all The Lamb stuff and all the rest of it, I mean, this stuff does have an awful lot of those elements in it, I think (Me: Oh, definitely...) Without being really repetitive of that...it sort of *recalls* that, I think...and it - it's sort of....(Me: It' s actually sort of...) I mean, I know that for a lot of people who have heard the album, who like what I do...it's sort of they feel that it's the best thing I've done for a long time, and I sort of...you know, I don't really argue with that, really.
Deb: No, I definitely wouldn't argue with it either. In fact, it's sort of ironic that you - you yourself just brought up all these things about "Firth of Fifth" and that...in that there were actually quite a number of different bits throughout that reminded me of a number of Genesis songs. Like, the chimes in it remind me of the end of "Ripples," and you know, Daryl's guitar solo, to me, sounded very much like Steve Hackett used to do, and the whole...the ending, to me, is exactly like "Firth of Fifth...and you (Tony: Well, I mean...) know, for somebody like me, I completely love that, you know. It's beautiful.
Tony: Yeah....Well, I mean, my attitude is that it - it harks back to all that, you know (Me: Right...) You know, it's not...it's musically a very different piece, but it's got elements of that....and - and I mean, I always felt that it's something that perhaps Genesis sort of did -- well, I mean, no one else really did it -- so we sort of did it better than anyone else 'cause (laughs lightly)....'cause no one else did it (Me: Right) and uh, it's a shame, really, in the sense that um, that it's not - it's not done, you know...I mean, I think the current Genesis would find it difficult, perhaps, to...to do that. And, you know, it's logical for me, really, in a sense, because obviously songs like "Firth" have been very much my baby, you know, and um...it's sort of logical for me to go back and do that. 'Cause I've always liked that kind of thing...I mean, perhaps listening...recently, see, we did all these remasters of all the old albums and everything, which involved quite a lot of listening and fiddling around and stuff....it kind of, you know, it gave us a chance to listen to all our earlier stuff and perhaps...you know, I'm probably -- certainly of the current three -- in fact, out of probably all of the people who've been with the group, probably the one who's perhaps the most proud of those...things, you know, the earlier days...particularly the albums between sort of Nursery Cryme and Duke, say, anyhow....(Me: Mmmhmm...) And um, so I mean, it's logical that I should - should want to record them a bit, I think.
Deb: Right. Well, of those of us that have heard the album, I think we're all very glad that you did, 'cause personally, I sort of miss all those sort of long songs and I know an awful lot of people love the old things like "Supper's Ready" and "Firth of Fifth" and all that, and...it was just like a really nice closing to the album.
Tony: Yeah. Well, the problem...I mean, yes, I mean, obviously, I agree with all that....I mean, I have...I kind of...you know, I - I love doing it, but it, it...you do get this problem, though, that people...'cause it never gets played on the radio, so no one ever gets a chance to hear it. And an awful lot of people who did like those early things, you know, I mean, they're a lot older now...(Me: Yeah...) and they don't get to the stage where they even...they probably wouldn't even listen to the radio anyhow, but they're certainly not gonna hear something that isn't on a record that - that isn't kind of, in a sense rammed...down their faces (Me; Right...) by some single or other, you know, so, it's a shame really, but a song like this kind of gets a bit - gets a bit lost, I suppose, really, in the end...you just...it's sort of there, but...you know, most people...a lot of people who could like it...will never hear it, it's as simple as that. (Me: Right...)
Deb: Actually, to sort of switch gears here, I actually have some questions about the artwork (Tony: Sure...) that you used for Strictly Inc...
Tony: Oh, yeah...
Deb: First of all , how did you happen to choose John Challis?
Tony: Well, what happened was, we did a video for "Only Seventeen," (Me: Mmmhmm) which is actually really good...if anyone ever gets a chance to see it, but unfortunately (he laughs lightly)...as usual, the sort of things we were talking about before really, I mean, you know...you're not gonna see it on MTV or anything, so, hopefully at some point we might be able to put on something which can actually be bought or something (Me: Oh, please! I laugh a little) But a lot of people put a lot of work into it...it - it's a sort of um...it's an animated thing (Me: Mmmhmm...) It involves a degree of drawn animation and quite a lot of computer animation, and a lot of the characters in it....all these pictures that are involved with the artwork on this were characters taken from the video...(Me: Oh, I see...) Now, to be honest, most of them you don't see for very long...the only one who figures at all...the one under "Only Seventeen" of the dancing girl, and she's - she's kind of quite prominent in the video (Me: Mmmhmm) A lot of the other things are, are...just sort of slip in and out. The two characters on the front...are sort of are there, but they - they come and go very quickly, you know. (Me: Okay...) But , yeah, when he was doing all these - the, the artwork for the video, you know, the lot of stills and stuff, and I just thought that these two characters were sort of there together on a piece of paper and I just thought, I thought they looked great...I thought they'd be really...sort of fun to have on the front of an album, you know. And um...this idea of sort of "Strictly Incognito" sort of going with them, because, in a very sort of...(laughs) ...I mean, in the most broad as possible sense, you know, they're sort of....if the...if they are Jack and I in disguise (I couldn't help it...I let out an absolute squeak of amazement here and then laughed!) they're far and away from what we actually look like...but they really are incognito, you know....So that was sort of um...interesting way to go....I liked it, really. I mean, one of my favorite covers, you know...I've always liked our cartoon covers in the past...Trick of the Tail and Duke being sort of two I really liked (Me: Mmmhmm...) And so, it seemed a sort of area to go in, you know. I read a lot of...comicstrip stuff, anyhow, so...I'm easy to please in that area.
Deb: So, did you have an idea of how you wanted this artwork to look, or did you just sort of let him listen to the music and sort of draw his own interpretation?
Tony: Well, like I said, these were all these stills just taken from the video, and I just kind of selected the ones I liked, you know...he did hundreds of drawings of these - these kind of...the idea of all these characters, the ones that are on the front and the one that's in the middle on "Charity Balls"...they were originally designed to be sort of, um...kind of uh....sort of, in - in...obviously in "Only Seventeen" you've got kind of this sort of...dark world that she kind of visits, which is sort of a...you know, sort of, I don't know...where drugs and everything goes on...and these, these people are supposed to be...kind of...represent the dark side in a rather sort of humorous way. That was the idea of them...(Me: Okay...) So we just, I just selected a few of them, and - and I used them throughout the thing 'cause I just thought they looked good...so - so they're really taken out of the original context they were drawn for. The only thing - the only picture here that was actually drawn for the album was the "Island in the Darkness" one...(Me: Okay...) And I mean, he did do some other ones, but I didn't really like them very much. I mean, even the "Island in the Darkness" one I don't think is that brilliant, but I think it works quite nicely in the position it's in, you know....it was more the cover that I sort of liked a lot, and we just decided to carry that right through.
Deb: Yeah, that's....there's another sort of irony...when I first saw the cover to this....just out of curiosity, did you ever read the book Sybil? ...by Flora Rheta Schreiber?
Tony: Sybil?
Deb: Yeah.
Tony: I've read a book called Sybil, but it wasn't by...who was that by?
Deb: The woman's name is Flora Rheta Schreiber...I have the book right here in front of me.
Tony: No, I don't think so, no...
Deb: Okay, well, do you even know what it's about?
Tony: No, I don't.
Deb: Oh! Okay. Ironically enough, it's about a woman with multiple personalities.
Tony: Oh, really?! (he laughs)
Deb: Yeah. This book came out...oh, I don't know, about twenty years ago or so, and again, it's based on an actual incident...it sort of documents all of her...you know, visits to the doctor and psychotherapy and that...and the book -- at least the original version of the book -- includes a number of sort of black-and-white illustrations that were done by some of this woman's selves, if want to call them that? (Tony: Yeah, yeah...) And there's actually one here that....well, while it's not identical, it's similar enough to the sort of open-mouthed figure on the cover of Strictly Inc...(Tony: Oh, right, yeah...) where I thought, "Wow, this is really, really ironic..." (Tony: Oh, right...) And it especially would be if you hadn't ever even heard or seen the book...?
Tony: Well, I haven't ...I haven't and I don't think the artist would have done either, because obviously he wasn't really working on the Strictly Incognito idea...he was just working on the "Only Seventeen" idea, which is something almost completely different anyhow.
Deb: So there you..
Tony: (Tony finishes with me) So there you go...well, that's...that's uh...um.....I don't know what to say, really...(we laugh together) It was meant to be, you know.
Deb: Yeah, I mean obviously, you know...this one was done by sort of a child-age self, if you want to call it that (Tony: Yes, right...) but the whole thing about the, with the open mouth and sort of the large lips and all that (Tony: Yeah, yeah) ...I was like, "Wow, this is really strange," so...oh, that's really interesting. (I laugh)
Tony: Yeah, yeah...well, there you go.
Deb: So, anyway...well, that's interesting. Let's see... (I have to confess, that latest piece of total irony about the multiple personality thing had shaken me a bit, and so I was sort of nervously fumbling here)
I actually have a couple of other questions here. When I was preparing for this, I gave the other people on the mailing list an opportunity to sort of write in (Tony: Right...) 'cause I'm sure they'll probably all be dying to hear what you had to say. (Tony: Sure...) Let me just give you a couple here....(I pause for a second)
I guess probably the - one of the hot items was sort of what's up with the boxed set? (Tony: Oh, right...) Like, when is it coming out and all that? (Tony: Mmm...)
Tony: Well, I mean, it's...we're not quite sure...I don't think it's gonna...originally it was gonna come out before Christmas this year, but I don't think it's gonna come out quite that soon, now...(Me: Okay...) We've sort of finished it musically...I think the main thing we've got to sort out now is contractual stuff, with - uh, particularly with Peter's record company and stuff, you know (Me: Okay...) So I don't quite know whether that - I think that probably means it's not gonna come out before Christmas now...I haven't heard anything about it recently, but we have actually finished the music side of it, unless something else turns up...and um, and also the artwork is pretty much done (Me: Oh, great...) So....that's about all I can say about it, really....I don't know if you know what's on it...it - it's mainly live...itŐs a lot of live stuff and there's a lot of demos and stuff which mainly come from the pre-Genesis to Revelation period...which is um...(Me: Oh, wow...)...so anyone who wants to listen to the boxed set really ought to (he laughs) get ahold of a copy of Genesis to Revelation, 'cause in a sense, the best things ended up on Genesis to Revelation, and these obviously are demos that didn't end up there. They're quite fun to hear, because sort of Peter's voice sounds nice, I think...though the rest of it is...some of the songs are alright, but it's - it's not, you know, it's not our best stuff. I mean (begins to laugh) I'm not sounding like a very good advertisement for it (we both laugh) but um...there's a few nice things there, definitely, some quite interesting things, but um....I think it's probably the stuff people would enjoy more is perhaps the live stuff...there's a complete version of Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, which is live, and a few other songs from the Selling England period...all with Peter's voice, you know, so....(Me: Wow, so you...) ...stuff that hasn't been heard before...in this form. Now, I mean, there have been bootlegs around, but this is...we went back on the Lamb stuff, we went back onto the original ....original multi-tracks (Me: Wow...) and stuff, and Peter also did re-did a bit of vocal singing as well 'cause some of it was a bit rough. So, it - it sounds very good, I think, I mean, you know...if you like The Lamb you'll like this, 'cause it's sort of a different version of - of The Lamb. And quite a few bits were changed a bit.
Deb: So it sounds like all of you guys have been really involved with this....
Tony: Well, not really, I mean, Peter actually - I was quite surprised he wanted to do as much as he did, but anyhow he sort of re-sang the whole thing and then we kind of used bits and pieces of it. (Me: Wow...) I mean, of all of us, I've been more involved in it than anybody else, just because I've been around more, I suppose, and I have a - sort of a closer relationship with Nick Davis, and stuff. (Me: Mmmhmm...) So it's kind of been, you know, a lot of the decisions have been there. (Me: Right...) You know, being down to me and stuff, but I mean, you know, I think it, uh... I think having said that, I mean, it's still to everybody's...*taste*...the result.
Deb: Right... So, okay, so...we're gonna have to wait until probably early next year?
Tony: Or even late next year, I'm not quite sure (Me: Wow...) when it's gonna come out, but it is sort of musically ready, but...um, not - not available yet.
Deb: Okay. Now, how many more are you sort of planning on doing, or is this just gonna be the only one, or...?
Tony: No, there's supposed to be two more boxed sets, really, (Me: Wow...) I think that was the idea, to sort of um...it - obviously one thing was to include on it, or will be included on it, is all those kind of B-sides and extra tracks and bits and pieces (Me: Oh, great...) I mean, originally I thought it'd be nice just all those out on a sort of - in their own set, if you like, but um...I think the record company sort of smelt money, so....you know, they want to do the whole thing. And having said that, I mean obviously it gives one a chance to - to, you know, to do a few...spread out a bit more and do more than just the B-sides and stuff, you know (Me: Right) and a bit of demo and a bit of live stuff , but probably more demo stuff from , you know - particularly rehearsal-type tapes and things in the future stuff that's coming up, because the rehearsal stuff we do while we're writing is obviously a lot better quality in later periods ...so it will be a bit more of that...but um, we haven't really talked about the next lot, you know, there's been (he laughs lightly)..it's taken long enough to do this first one, actually...(Me: Yeah...) So, it's sort of um, you know...I - I've heard too much of it, to be honest.
Deb: I know there are a couple people that were sort of afraid that, you know, with these boxed sets coming out, it was sort of like a retirement or a farewell gift to the fans. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Tony: I think...(he pauses) I think there will be another Genesis album. (Me: Great) So...but I mean, you know, quite what form it will take, I don't know. So, you know, beyond that, I can't say, really. It's (he pauses a longer time) you know, I mean, a lot of time's gone by since the last one, but every time we - we're between albums sort of like, you know, things - things happen and we just have to see when we get back together exactly what the situation is, you know, but... (Me: Right...) But certainly the intention at this point is for there to be another one, so we will...we will see what happens when we get there.
Deb: Oh, excellent. Another thing that people were sort of curious about is that if *you* would ever intend, or ever consider, doing like a show on your own? (I pause) I know you don't like to travel and that, but I can probably easily tell you that if the word were to get out that you were gonna be playing somewhere, we'd all be buying our airline tickets tomorrow. (we both laugh)
Tony: Well, I mean, what you just said, 'cause obviously when Jack and I have been going around doing interviews quite a bit for this, we always said that, obviously, if something were to...you know, I think ....you know, Jack obviously has quite a lot of experience with Wang Chung and everything, and um...we've...considered it, but only in the sense that if - if this record did anything, you know.... (Me: Mmmhmm...)...purely because it's sort of, you've gotta have something to sort of, to start with (Me: Right...) And it's all very well saying there's sort of...the die-hard fans would come, I mean, that's fine, but...you know, I obviously think this album has sort of proved to me how few there are...I mean, I know, I'm not (he laughs lightly) trying to sound sort of like...you know, bitter or anything, but that's...that's the way it is, I mean, you have to be honest about this, and to say that, you know...if the record can only sell a few hundred copies in all, I mean that is not really enough to sort of set up a kind of tour on the base of, you know? (Me: Yeah...) But I mean, obviously if you had a single that is successful, then people kind of get to know it and all the rest of it, then things change a little bit. And um, you know, I mean, obviously...if it were to happen I think it would be a possibility, but...you know, and I have to say that having had one single out that's sort of done nothing, you know, you try a second single and you see what happens, but one always has to always say that the second single has to have a lot less chance than the first single. And um....one has to be a little bit pessimistic about it, but...I don't know, really, you know... (he laughs lightly) (Me: Yeah...) The thing is, the single of course has to only sell about a thousand copies to - to make all the difference in the world, and um...but....can't seem to do it.
Deb: Yeah... It's really a shame, 'cause, I mean, I know I'm not the only one that - that would tell you that, you know, we obviously think you deserve an awful lot more of the...you know, of the limelight than you seem to get. I mean, you know, you've been the first sort of founding member that's still sort of around, and no one really seems to know that except all the die-hard fans, and it's...
Tony: Well, I mean, yes...in a sense, it's my own thing, I mean, it's the way I play it, you know, I mean I kind of...I'm quite happy to be sort of background member...that's - that's - that matches my personality, really. And, you know, I've always been very glad of the fact that sort of Peter and obviously Phil...were happy to take the role of being, you know, the frontman. But it's only when you do solo things that that becomes a problem. I think -- you know, it's a part...it - it's just - I don't know what it is...it's the way people perceive me, I think, you know, I've released...I don't know how many singles I've released now over the years...it must probably be...probably about a dozen at least, you know (Me: Right...) But I've never, ever got on anybody's playlist...well, I mean, that's the problem you know? You've got to get on (begins laughing lightly) a playlist. If you don't get a single on the playlist....um, I donÍt know, for some reason it's always been much easier for Mike, I mean....right from his very first album, you know, he had a song called "Working in Line" off Smallcreep's Day, and that...that got a lot of play in England, you know? (Me: Mmmhmm...) If you could just get that kind of play, I mean, when you - when this song, "Over My Shoulder", you know, was the most played song in England for about two or three weeks....(Me: Hmmm) even thought it didn't, perhaps....I mean, it sold okay but not brilliantly, you know, so...it does make so much difference...it - it just means the whole thing is given a sort of viewpoint of that everyone knows it's out and you can sort of...and you can expand on that. But you know, every time I bring a thing out, it seems to be very, very difficult to - just to let people know it's out, and the way...the industry is at the moment, the record shops won't stock an album until it's got something going for it, like a Top 40 song or something. So it...you're left in this kind of limbo-land, you know...you can't -you can't...promote it. You'd love to do something, but you can't, you know? (Me: Yeah...) You know, it really is a bit frustrating...but on the other hand, I mean, you know, I - I've had quite a few breaks (begins laughing lightly) with the group, so I can't...I'm not really complaining. It - (Me: Yeah...) ...it's just that it would be nice, obviously, if things were a bit easier with the solo stuff, but that's...you know, I mean, it's nice that obviously some people hear it and they like it, and that - that's great. (Me: Oh, yeah...) It just would be nice if it were (laughs again) slightly more people, I think, 'cause I know that the people who like what I do with Genesis would like - would like this, but....(Me: Yeah) I'm afraid I can't convince them of that.
Deb: Yeah, unfortunately it sort of seems to be that if you want to get a Top 40 hit or something, you have to sound like everybody else, and that's so wrong, I mean... for somebody like yourself who, you know, you don't wanna have to do that. You wanna write, you know, what you like, or, you know, what fits you, or something...
Tony: Well, the truth of the matter is I'm not sure I *could* sound like everybody else. I mean, that's just the way I am, you know...so you're - you're left with that as a - as a sort of um...the silly thing is, you only need one hit, and then the doors open for you, you know...I think that's why Mike's found it so easy really, you know, you get one out and then suddenly...everyone wants the other, second one...you know, and it gets much easier. Um...and you know, with Genesis, obviously, we released some very unlikely songs as singles and we've only been able to do that because of the reputation of the group. (Me: Right...) And um, you know, 'cause audiences in fact, although...everyone...it's the people at the radio stations who always want to play very "safe" songs, you know, things that do sound like everybody else (Me: Right...) ...and it's...whereas audiences often like...much more...ambitious songs, you know, you've only gotta look ...I mean, I don't know what it...you mentioned "I'm Not in Love," you know, that's obviously a long song, you know, and there are things like...you know (he inhales a bit) ...oh, I don't know over the years, like "Bohemian Rhapsody" and stuff...I mean, certainly songs that have been overlengthened and ambitious that have been very successful. (Me: Mmmhmm...) I don't know *why* those particular ones have been allowed to be played on the radio in the first place, you know...it's very difficult to work out...what it is that...let them be played in the first place, because they're not typical singles. (Me: Right.)
Deb: Um, let me see...what else do I have here? Oh, actually...sort of back-tracking...one question that I always had for you...and it - it's sort of in terms for how you get inspiration for your lyrics...was I always wanted to know what inspired you to write "All in A Mouse's Night?"
Tony: Um....well, I don't know...nothing in particular, really....I think it was just, um (he laughs a little)...really just sort of a silly story, really...(he gets a sort of musing quality to his voice here) I can't really think what particularly started it off, actually....um....
Deb: Because, it just seemed like such an unlikely topic, I thought, "Oh man, this has gotta be based on something that really happened," you know...
Tony: No, no, it didn't really....I just sort of...it was just, I think, I'd written kind of what was a couple of very serious songs on that album, which was "One for the Vine" and "Afterglow" (Me: Mmmhmm...) ...I thought I wanted to write something with a bit of - bit of humor in it, I think, and um, it was just a sort of...reaction, you know, a sort of "Tom and Jerry" sort of type story, I suppose and um, kind of, you know, you start off with an idea and just see where it leads, I think...that was, that was how it was. There's nothing...no particularly special...*occasion* ...(Me: (laughing) Okay...) ...or anything, no...(he also laughs)
Deb: 'Cause, I have to tell you, there've been a couple times we've had mice in the house, and that's all I can think of, you know, is...as my husband sits and watches me, like, rip up the house trying to get at the thing, you know?
Tony: Well, that's it, I mean, it's a sort of bandy reaction to the - to the mouse, you know...I mean, it's, it's just a sort of, you know, it - it's always...well, I mean, (he laughs) my recollection of it is that "I'm not sleeping with that thing around here," you know, and all that, and it's sort of...therefore it's down to me to do something about it, you know? (Me: Right...) And it's sort of uh...I mean, I don't mind mice actually, I was rather bored with mice, I'm no good with spiders, though, really, you know...(this was such a surprising, totally unexpected confession that I had to laugh)...and the whole same kind of...problem...but um, but a mouse can do a lot more than a spider can, you know, so it kind of was more interesting song really, and everyone relates to..."Tom and Jerry" sort of idea, and so...the idea of the cat sort of....you know, getting.... (Me: Oh, yeah it was perfect...) .(he laughs lightly)..was sort of...seemed to me funny, but um...you know, it was just a lightweight song after the other two.
Deb: Uh, let's see, what else do I have here? Oh, um...(I pause for a few seconds) Oh God, I just...I'm sorry...I completely lost my train of thought. Obviously I don't do this every day, so I have to apologize. (This was the one instance where I fell flat on my face....I think I was so subconsciously taken aback by his comment about his not liking spiders that I completely drew a *big* blank. =) (Tony: No, right, right, right...) Another thing I always wanted to know is, whose idea was it to use Benny Hill in your video for "Anything She Does"?
Tony: I can't remember who specifically it was...uh, we liked Benny Hill, you know, because the idea of sort of using him in a video....because the video was about, um, you know, sort of pin-up girls I suppose or whatever...it always kind of seemed logical to...you know, Benny Hill was sort of...he - his program was always so related to that kind of girl (Me: Uh-huh...)...that it just sort of seemed...it - it was a good choice. We just said, " Oh, it'd be great to have Benny Hill on, wouldn't it?" and then, so someone said, "Well, why not try?" So we rang him up and he said "Yeah!" Which was quite a surprise, really...so, it sort of um...it was great fun for us to work with him, 'cause he's sort of, like, you know...he's one of those....he -he's sort of English...he *was* at least, an English sort of legend, you know? (Me: Yeah...) And I think working with people like that is quite amusing, really...and videos give you the chance to have a real actor on it...well, I know Phil's a real actor now, of course, but at the time, anyhow, it felt like you had a real actor there, as opposed to us lot who were kind of like...trying to sort of (he laughs lightly) do our best....(I laugh) ...under difficult circumstances...it was - it was fun to do, yeah...
Deb: Yeah, he worked - he worked out very nicely in that...and it was sort of nice that you *did* get him to do it, because I don't think it was too long after that that he passed away?
Tony: (sadly) No, that's right....he was uh...he wasn't around much longer.
Deb: So, uh, it was a nice sort of tribute, I guess...you know, a really nice thing to remember him by...(Tony: Yeah...)...I always thought.
Actually, something else that a very good friend of mine wanted to know is if you're aware of some of these sort of Genesis cover bands that exist? Like, there's one over here in Canada called The Musical Box, which sort of recreates the whole sort of Nursery Cryme show...? Like you used to do...?
Tony: Yeah...I - I've heard about people. I know there - there's some Japanese ones that sort of do things...I think there's an album, I think, they've released in Japan of stuff...um, yeah, I mean, I - no, I've never seen anyone, really, I mean...I - I sort of...I don't know...(he laughs) ...I don't know how it would be, really...um, no, we don't sort of particularly keep...keep sort of track of it, you know. I'm sure if one of them would sort of ...uh...sort of *pierce* the public consciousness to a greater degree, then we probably would, you know? (Me: Well, I guess...) I mean, it's very nice to be - you know, no objection to people doing things, I mean, you know...
Deb: Yeah, 'cause I mean, I've not seen them myself, but I guess they actually like, recreate all the costumes and the...lighting and all that that you used to use (Tony: Right...) and I guess the keyboard player from this band in particular was interested, because apparently -- I don't know how long ago it was -- but apparently they gave you a video, or something, of one of their shows? And I guess they sort of wondered if you had seen that, and what you....
Tony: I've not - not seen it, but I mean, you know, it may have come sort of, um...you know, it may have got lost somewhere en route or someone else may have it, I don't know. It - it's a difficult one, really...I mean, to be honest, I mean...it's probably of more interest to other people than it is to us, you know? I mean, we kind of...you know, it - it's sort of um...(he pauses for a few seconds) It's all a long time ago, I suppose. (Me: Right...) You know, that's the truth of the matter, and uh...it's sort of not...you know, we're more interested I think in what's coming...you know, in what we're doing now and what's coming up, in a way. But, no, I mean, I - I, you know, it's great that people do it, I mean, you know, it's...uh...it'd be nice to see a bit more music, rather than sort of, I don't know, some sort of imitation, but it'd be nice to see a bit more sort of music that's kind of perhaps more...*influenced* (Me: Right...) ...aspiring...you know, I mean, there'd be Marillion, though, and people like that....you know, it - it...sometimes...it's a slightly more what you might call...ambitious, complex side of rock music seems to have sort of disappeared, recently (Me: Yeah...) and it'd be nice to see a bit of resurrection of that, I think, 'cause it'd be nice to hear a few players....'cause there aren't many people who...who are really, you know, okay, there's one or two people who've emerged, obviously -- uh, the guy in Extreme, you know, the guitarist.... Now, but there's very few guitar...people....real players who sort of emerged in the last few years...(Me: Right...) and it's much more sort of down to like sort of pop bands and um...techno sort of variations and that - that...I don't find quite as interesting, myself.
Deb: Right. Well, listen, I...I know when I spoke to Carol, she said that we should maybe try and keep this to half an hour, so I...
Tony: Right, well, I do think I have to go, actually....I mean, 'cause it's - it's pretty late, isn't it? (he laughs)
Deb: Yeah...and listen, I really appreciate your taking time out of your (Tony: That's alright...) own weekend to call, but I would really like to say something in closing...and that's, you know, just that you and I have been talking for like, you know, fifty minutes or something now, and while it's been a real honor for me to speak to you -- as a musician-- I'd also like to think that...what I'm about to say is the...the best possible compliment I can give you, and that it's been an even bigger honor to speak to you as a person.
Tony: Well, thank you very much...
Deb: I might just be one individual here, but I feel that I'm actually speaking with the voice of many...(Tony: Right...) ...and...
Tony: Right...Well, that's great, I - I'm very...you - you know, I know there are people who feel very strongly, and that's really nice....you know, I mean, that's great. I mean, that's...ultimately, it's more important to sort of, um- you know, to - to reach a few people kind of in a very strong manner than it is to reach a whole load of people in a sort of very casual manner...I suppose (Me: Right...) ...which is nice. Good.
Deb: So, I guess I'm just saying that when I feel you're talking to me, you're actually talking to all of your fans around the world...and (Tony: Right...)...and so for that, I just - I just want to say thank you.
Tony: Well, right...well, thank *you.*
Deb: It's - it's been a real pleasure, and a privilege, and I - I certainly wish you all the best, and continued success...and you know, hopefully we'll hear from you, you know, with Genesis in a couple of years or so...(Tony: Right...) and...we'll really look forward to it.
Tony: Okay...(Me: Thanks so much...)...well, thanks very much....
Deb: Bye-bye.
Tony: Alright then...bye. 
