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Redbeard: This week will go in the studio with the album that gave Genesis their first ever American top 10 song. [fade to Mama]
Mike Rutherford: Side 1 has really stood up. The three songs: Mama, That's All, and Home By the Sea. And uh, they're great songs. Side 2, just, you know, hasn't really lasted. Kinda, they've all fallen by the wayside. And it always amazes me how its not until you get a couple of years distance from an album, maybe a year, that you can tell what's good and what's not so good. But I think that some of the best stuff we've ever done is on side 1 of that album. It's very strong.
[abrupt change to That's All]
Phil Collins: Mike and Tony have always had problems saying "I love you" in a word, in a lyric. And I've never had a problem doin' that. You know, it's part of me; I'm very honest and direct.
[Abrupt change to Home By The Sea II closing lyrics]
Hello, This is Mike Rutherford. Hello, I'm Tony Banks of Genesis. Hi, this is Phil Collins of Genesis here in the Studio.
RB: Phase I of Genesis' career ended in 1975 when charismatic front man Peter Gabriel took his leave from the group he'd helped form in 1966. Then at the start of the 80's a third phase evolved when Genesis turned down a road that led them in a more concise pop-oriented direction. With the Albums _Duke_ and _Abacab_, Genesis hit the mark with an American audience that in the past had perhaps thought of the English band as purely Progressive. Following the top 10 successes of _Abacab_ and the subsequent _3 Sides Live_, as well as the surprising parallel career of drummer and singer Phil Collins, it would appear that Genesis faced some interesting choices as they began work on their self-titled album in 1983. Should they honor their past by not straying too far from their progressive side, or should they continue to forge new ground? However as Phil Collins comments, the path was always clear.
PC: No, we've never thought, "well should we do this, what would people say, we're s'posed to be a progressive rock group, and um you know, this would be rocking the boat as far as the fans are concerned." Um, we've always done what we wanted to do and along the line we've lost a lot of fen....er fans and friends and I'm sure we have and um apart from the ones who don't like what you're putting out you get people that are, you know, they uh don't buy every album you do, they've got a mortgage, they've got 2 kids, they've got a dog, they've got a house, they're not interested as they were in music. You know, they're interests have widened. So you're gonna lose fans like that. You're also gonna lose fans because they like that surreal sci-fi approach that we used to have but as we change and the audience change, you know hope that you take people with you.
[Illegal alien song played]
RB: From the 1983 Genesis album, a light hearted look at a day in the life of an illegal alien. When Genesis went into the studio to record the album that they refer to as the Mama album, they once again chose to work with Hugh Padgham, the man who had engineered _Abacab_ and helped Phil Collins produce his first two solo albums. When asked about Padgham's contributions to Genesis' sound, Collins gave this flippant reply.
PC: Well he has the drums loud. [laughing] It's as easy as that. No, it's not quite just that. I was obviously first off very impressed with the drum sound...um...that we got together on Peter Gabriel's third album. And...he came in with Genesis. We have 3 minds in Genesis that we know exactly what we want to hear. Hugh came in as an engineer, but more than just an engineer. Um...assistant producer if you like, if you've got to give someone a term, I guess that's better than co-producer or producer. But you know its difficult to label somebody as what they do, 'cuz with Genesis we all know what we want the songs to sound like. But it is a fourth opinion we have available to us if we want to use it.
RB: With 1981's _Abacab_ album, Genesis had returned to the group writing format they had abandoned following Peter Gabriel's departure in 1975. For 1983's _Genesis_ album, they wanted to take that a step further. Genesis guitarist and bass player Mike Rutherford explains.
MR: Alongside getting back to writing together again, in the studio, you know with no ideas, just three [?] for go in and improvise, what comes out comes out, we always had this ambition to be able to record something very quickly. It was one of the main reasons to get our own studio. It was always in the back of our minds. And Mama is a good example of a song, that I think...I mean Mama was recorded within days of writing it. I mean, you know, it was really a long song and we turned it into that version, I mean it could have gone for hours. And its an example of how...it would never would have happened if we had taken it and then worked on it for a couple of weeks or longer and gone into a studio. We managed to capture some of that magic that was there literally in the first few hours of playing a song. We got it down. Which I think is a quite important thing for us to capture.
[Mama is played - started during Mike's comments]
RB: From the album simply entitled _Genesis_. The album that the band lovingly refers to as the Mama album, that is the song called Mama. Coming up next, we'll discuss love songs with Genesis. I'm Redbeard, and you're in the studio with the 1983 _Genesis_ album.
[commercials]
PC: Welcome back to in the studio with Genesis. I'm Phil Collins with Redbeard.
RB: Thanks Phil. Years after the 1983 release of the _Genesis_ album it still holds up as one of Genesis' best. Rife with standout tracks, _Genesis_ includes a tale of espionage called Just a Job to Do. Since the main character in Just a Job seems to be working for an organization such as the CIA or the KGB, I asked the lyricist, Mike Rutherford if the covert spy mentality intrigues him.
MR: "Intrigues" is the wrong word. It...it scares me really. There's this amazing kind of mindless acceptance of things. They had some false experiments a few years ago when they actually set up an imitation experiment and a guy was in a chair, being given electric shock and because the people in the control room were actually dressed in white coats and it was a very official sort of government type of thing. When they administered a shock, the guy inside acted. He wasn't really getting a shock at all. He reacted to it as if he was. And all the time, the subjects were actually the guys not in the chair, but the guys inside turning the knob up. And because the officials organizing it and the doctors and the people there looking very official kept saying "No, it's quite all right, don't worry, this is a medical experiment..." you know, sanctioned by whoever, and they were turning, you know some people would turn it up to unbelievable levels of pain and didn't question it. Although, one or two actually questioned it, but its just amazing what people will do when they feel its official, its okay to do.
[Just a Job to Do is played]
RB: Examining the belief that nearly anything can be rationalized if it falls within your job description or national security, that's Genesis with Just a Job to Do. That song is a good Example of the narrative lyrical form Genesis has been so good at over the years. For at least two members of Genesis, however, one type of lyric hasn't come quite as easily. Here's Phil Collins.
PC: Mike and Tony have always had problems saying "I love you" in a word, in a lyric. And I've never had a problem doin' that. You know, it's part of me; I'm very honest and direct. And um and them, and the other guys, um, because of their upbringing, because of the kind of school they went to and because of the fam...you know, this is a purely honest critical look at them um, they've had trouble dealing with showing their emotions. I think there were a ton of...it was drummed into you at the school they went into that men didn't do this. You know, they were being bred for officer and gentlemen material. And um, I came from a totally different background so I am a totally different person than uh Tony and Mike. Tony and Mike have loosened up incredibly in the last 10 years, you know.
RB: While keyboardist Tony Banks won't exactly refute Phil's observation, he will stand up in his own defense.
Tony Banks: I think that I was the first person to use the words "I love you" [Phil and Mike heard hooting and booing in the background. Tony speaks up and changes to somewhat exasperated tone] on a Genesis, on a Genesis lyric! [Phil still laughing] I have to quote here from a song I wrote in 1976 called Mad Man Moon which says "Oh, how I love you I once cried long ago." Um, but the rest of the song was nothing about it at all. [Phil and Mike laugh and make unintelligible comments in the background] Um, it was just, um [to Phil] you're absolutely right. I find, I've always found it difficult to, I think, I certainly used to find it difficult to express a sort of genuine feeling through a song, and I tended to always try to hide through the third person, perhaps dress myself up as someone else. And I probably still find myself...it easier to do that, but I have over the years written a few things where I think, you know, you go into the love lyric. I mean, you know, because I think there's something about it. When um when I was a teenager and stuff there was nothing like a good quite straightforward love lyric to actually sort of move you. It's much easier to actually move a person with that kind of lyric in a way then it is with a deep philosophical statement. But its nice to have a little bit of both to be honest, but I think Phil's point is right.
MR: Yes, I think it is very true. I think the other thing is that he was talking, really, lyrically about a thing as as we probably all have a bit as people, Tony and I have definitely changed.
[Taking it All Too Hard is played]
RB: From the 1983 _Genesis_ album, that's Taking it All Too Hard. Still to come, a haunted tale with a ghoulish twist. I'm Redbeard, and you're in the studio with the 1983 album _Genesis_.
[commercials]
MR: Welcome back to In The Studio. This is Mike Rutherford here.
RB: Thank you Mike, I'm Redbeard and this week we're putting the spotlight on the 1983 album from Genesis. As we discussed earlier, Genesis made a conscious decision for the _Abacab_ album to go back to writing together, meaning they would bring no pre-conceived song ideas into the studio. This approach also meant that Phil Collins, Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford would have to change the way they recorded together. Once again, here's Genesis drummer and singer Phil Collins.
PC: It's only really since Mama that we've started to record differently. We'd get...we'd go into the studio with nothing written, we'd get this blank sheet of paper, the equivalent of a blank sheet of paper. We'd get bits, we'd get arrangements, and then we'd decide on the arrangement of a song like Home By the Sea, the first half of that song. I'd put the drum machine down, Tony would put the rough keyboard part down at the same time as Mike's puttin' the rough guitar part down; a compromise of all their parts and I would play, I would sing, whatever the melody was and if there were any words. Like Home by the Sea, that phrase, "home by the sea" was improvised and Tony went away and wrote a whole lyric about it. Like as a ghost, ghost story. Um...and once we've go the arrangement down, and we've recorded the arrangement, we say, "Right, let's go and listen to it." We listen to it and we agree that that's the arrangement. Then we'll start going in and replacing everything. So we do a backing track, which we don't keep anything of. I go in and play drums to the rough keyboard and rough guitar part, and then they come in and put a keyboard part down and another keyboard part down and Mike will put a guitar part down and they're your building bricks, so...
[Home by the Sea and Second Home By The Sea played]
RB: Written from the unique point of view of the ghosts that haunt a coastal retreat, that's Genesis, with Home by the Sea. By the time the Genesis album had reached its peak, it had become their second American top 10 album. It reached the million sales level quicker than any previous Genesis album and produced That's All, their first top 10 single in the US. Still, in retrospect, Mike Rutherford of Genesis has mixed feelings about the album.
MR: Well, my feelings looking back on this album are very clear. It's interesting, at the time I liked it all as always I do, but its funny, you know. Side 1 is great. Side 2 is not so great. And I never understand why at the time I couldn't see that. But that's just the way it always works. I mean, side 1 has really stood up, 3 songs, Mama, That's All and Home by the Sea, and they're great songs. Side 2 just uh you know, hasn't really lasted. It's kinda...they've all fallen by the wayside and it always amazes me how its not until you get a couple of years distance from an album, maybe a year, that you can tell what's good and what's not so good. But I think that some of the best stuff we've ever done is on side 1 of that thing. It's very strong.
[That's All is played]
RB: Tha..tha..tha...That's All, folks. We'll be right back.
[Commercials]
RB: This is Redbeard, and I'd like to thank Phil Collins, Tony Banks and Mike Rutherford of Genesis for exploring their 1983 album. Special thanks also goes to Tony Smith of Hit & Run Management. You can write to us In The Studio at PO Box 10307, Burbank, CA 91510 [USA]. In the Studio is a Bullet Production, produce by yours truly, Redbeard, and written by Jim Nelson. Production assistance, Editing and Digital Mastering by Rick "RJ" Lane. The Executive Producer of In the Studio is Steven R. Smith.
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TB: I have to quote here from a song I wrote in 1976 called Mad Man Moon which says "Oh, how I love you I once cried long ago."
[I can provide a Mac sampled sound of the first part of Tony's quote for Kim at Pitt. :^)]
Second. I find it interesting that Mike is fascinated by the Miligram's 37 experiments that inspired Peter Gabriel.
Third: The lads were very patient in this interview and seemed to enjoy the questions.
Fourth: I dunno when this was originally recorded. Some enterprising person (read probably me) could write to the makers of this and find out. If I find anything out, I will post it to the list and send it personally to the keeper of the archives (Sue, right??)
Anyhow, I hope you enjoyed this submission. Let me know what you think!
Michael Dahlstrom